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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:09 pm 
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I want to set my Mk1 Cooper S up with electronic ignition. It is a little confusing knowing what the right thing to do is, I can convert my current distributor but for peace of mind I would still want to change the coil, rotor button, dissy cap and leads.

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/Reliant-Robin-23D-Electronic-ignition-Distributor-and-perfomance-pack-R1-/170703805844?epid=858741934&hash=item27bebd5d94%3Am%3AmBL0lOB5TD0OamrLJ9ICUbg&_trkparms=pageci%253Adc7c3478-6ae2-11e7-ad44-74dbd180b763%257Cparentrq%253A504d3bf315d0a990a8254bd9ffe700e1%257Ciid%253A22

I look at something like this kit and think why bother converting my distributor when I can get the whole kit for for about the same cost of all the individual components I want to replace and to convert my current distributor?

Is there a good reason to keep the original and convert that rather than to buy something like the kit in the link for around $200?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:31 pm 
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If you are worried about originality you would keep it and fit an Accuspark kit for $72 . Cooper S distributors are special and unique.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:40 pm 
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wild_willy wrote:
If you are worried about originality you would keep it and fit an Accuspark kit for $72 . Cooper S distributors are special and unique.


I am not so worried about originality, I just don't want to make any irreversible changes. I like the idea of the original parts staying as they are in a box not being used, but if the original distributor is in some way better then I will convert it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:44 pm 
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8700s14 wrote:
wild_willy wrote:
If you are worried about originality you would keep it and fit an Accuspark kit for $72 . Cooper S distributors are special and unique.


I am not so worried about originality, I just don't want to make any irreversible changes. I like the idea of the original parts staying as they are in a box not being used, but if the original distributor is in some way better then I will convert it.

The original dissy is actually not that good. The total advance is to much and takes ages to hit full advance. It has a 15deg plate so the total advance is 30deg. You will have issues at higher rpm if you set your idle advance to high. Some performance engines respond well to a 10 deg plate and 12deg advance at idle. Giving full advance of 32deg at 4000rpm. The S dissy is still advancing well past this mark.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:43 am 
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The Cooper S dissy only really differs as it has no vacuum advance, not needed on a sports car and one more thing to fail during a race/rally. However as they were only fitted to Cooper?Cooper S/GT they are rare and in that regard special.

The simplest step would be too replace the traditional points with electronic. very easy just like changing a set of points. an extra wire to the dissy is all thats required. However GTO is correct, I struggled with mine, todays fuels burn differently and often the advance springs are worn making things even worse. I had this setup for a while but every time i tried to improve the performance it was pinging it's head off at lower revs. It works but there will be power there you can't access because the curve is no good.

Another option is to keep the original safe in a box and you can buy replica Mk1 Cooper S dissys, (or any number of aftermarket units) complete with electronic points and that will give a better curve (better suited to todays modern fuels) than the original dissy.

The best setup for both performance and visual originality is to fit a "Black Box". I have found this excellent. The original distributors weights are disabled (wired up) and electronic points are fitted. The "black box" can be installed out of sight (e.g. under dash.) The advance curve and timing is all done via usb/laptop to the 'box'. Visually in the engine bay everything looks totally original but every aspect of the advance curve can be adjusted. It even has a rev limiter.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:03 am 
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Unless you get the advance specs from the distributor seller, you'll still be in the dark. The curve might be totally inappropriate for your car and cause big problems and not run right..

You can get your original one rebuilt at a specialist who can check and adjust the advance curves and put in one that suits todays fuels and the spec of your car.

phillb helped me with the blackbox kit for my car. You lockout the advance mechanism with tie wire, I added a new electronic points set and you wire the blackbox into the car (I think only 4 wires). I've now got my original 25D back in my car and unless you spot the extra wire to the coil/distributor you can't really tell it apart from stock. There are a couple of photos in my build thread on the last two pages
viewtopic.php?p=1013438#p1013438

There is a thread on ausmini here. Unfortunately most of the photos are gone now :x
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83483&hilit=blackbox

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:04 am 
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timmy201 wrote:
Unless you get the advance specs from the distributor seller, you'll still be in the dark. The curve might be totally inappropriate for your car and cause big problems and not run right..

You can get your original one rebuilt at a specialist who can check and adjust the advance curves and put in one that suits todays fuels and the spec of your car.

phillb helped me with the blackbox kit for my car. You lockout the advance mechanism with tie wire, I added a new electronic points set and you wire the blackbox into the car (I think only 4 wires). I've now got my original 25D back in my car and unless you spot the extra wire to the coil/distributor you can't really tell it apart from stock. There are a couple of photos in my build thread on the last two pages
viewtopic.php?p=1013438#p1013438

There is a thread on ausmini here. Unfortunately most of the photos are gone now :x
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83483&hilit=blackbox


Yes I understand, this is a seemingly very important aspect that sellers don't really seem to care to provide any information about.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:13 pm 
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From experience, the Chinese Lucas Dizzys have an advance curve that is inappropriate for Minis.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:20 pm 
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TK wrote:
From experience, the Chinese Lucas Dizzys have an advance curve that is inappropriate for Minis.

I hope your not implying that a cooper s needs a different advance curve to a reliant robin. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:28 pm 
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I have a Cooper S dissy that was recurved to suit the motor and fitted with Lumenition electronic module. It's worked flawlessly for years.

The Mini Van has a Scorcher dissy which was built with a custom advance curve to suit the engine spec. This has also proved ultra reliable. There's fully electronic programmable ones around now including the 123 and CSL and other "black box" types which allow you to alter the advance curve yourself quite easily.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:13 pm 
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8700s14 wrote:
timmy201 wrote:
Unless you get the advance specs from the distributor seller, you'll still be in the dark. The curve might be totally inappropriate for your car and cause big problems and not run right..

You can get your original one rebuilt at a specialist who can check and adjust the advance curves and put in one that suits todays fuels and the spec of your car.

phillb helped me with the blackbox kit for my car. You lockout the advance mechanism with tie wire, I added a new electronic points set and you wire the blackbox into the car (I think only 4 wires). I've now got my original 25D back in my car and unless you spot the extra wire to the coil/distributor you can't really tell it apart from stock. There are a couple of photos in my build thread on the last two pages
viewtopic.php?p=1013438#p1013438

There is a thread on ausmini here. Unfortunately most of the photos are gone now :x
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83483&hilit=blackbox


Yes I understand, this is a seemingly very important aspect that sellers don't really seem to care to provide any information about.


I know what you mean. I bought a powerspark high energy dissy and they would not provide any specs. I mapped it myself and the graph below shows how far away it was from what I needed.

Attachment:
43D4 Powerspark Factory v recurved.png


I have these from Accuspark if your interested.

The 23D has a 16deg advance plate and its all in at 4000rpm.

Attachment:
Accuspark 23D electronic dizzy.jpg



The 43D has a 13deg advance plate and its all in at 3500rpm.

Attachment:
Accuspark 43D electronic dissy.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:55 pm 
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gtogreen1969 wrote:
8700s14 wrote:
timmy201 wrote:
Unless you get the advance specs from the distributor seller, you'll still be in the dark. The curve might be totally inappropriate for your car and cause big problems and not run right..

You can get your original one rebuilt at a specialist who can check and adjust the advance curves and put in one that suits todays fuels and the spec of your car.

phillb helped me with the blackbox kit for my car. You lockout the advance mechanism with tie wire, I added a new electronic points set and you wire the blackbox into the car (I think only 4 wires). I've now got my original 25D back in my car and unless you spot the extra wire to the coil/distributor you can't really tell it apart from stock. There are a couple of photos in my build thread on the last two pages
viewtopic.php?p=1013438#p1013438

There is a thread on ausmini here. Unfortunately most of the photos are gone now :x
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83483&hilit=blackbox


Yes I understand, this is a seemingly very important aspect that sellers don't really seem to care to provide any information about.


I know what you mean. I bought a powerspark high energy dissy and they would not provide any specs. I mapped it myself and the graph below shows how far away it was from what I needed.

Attachment:
43D4 Powerspark Factory v recurved.png


I have these from Accuspark if your interested.

The 23D has a 16deg advance plate and its all in at 4000rpm.

Attachment:
Accuspark 23D electronic dizzy.jpg



The 43D has a 13deg advance plate and its all in at 3500rpm.

Attachment:
Accuspark 43D electronic dissy.jpg


Very useful information, the Accuspark 23D looks like it has a reasonably useful advance curve.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Can someone tell me what the difference between 'Cooper S' dissy points and regular 25D dissy points?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:32 pm 
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The 23D Mk1 S dissy was fitted with 32 ounce points, the standard 24 ounce was used on the other lucas dissys. The 29D Mk2 S distributor used standard GL19 points.

The 32 ounce points have Lucas Made in England stamped into the base and is supplied in a kit form. Standard points usually come assembled / one piece however i have seen a repro 32 ounce set that is one piece.

Both sets of points will fit the 23D, 25D, 29D. The only reason for the stronger spring was to stop the points bouncing at high revs.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:54 am 
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Later dizzies had an assymetric cam, much less likely to cause points bounce as they got a softer landing than the 23/25D cam gave.
But these days putting an electronic module in is a no brainier with the poor quality of aftermarket points and condensers.

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