Ausmini
It is currently Sun Apr 28, 2024 12:18 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:56 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:09 pm
Posts: 75
Location: Logan Village Qld
This may be of interest to some.

https://www.bugeyeguys.com/2024/01/how- ... 4eeda73c3f

Regards Jon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:23 am 
Offline
998cc
998cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 7:17 am
Posts: 548
A good simple test well explained.
Be aware that some modules can develop intermittent faults that will show as a misfire throughout the rev range.

_________________
Cheers Dave.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:35 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:07 pm
Posts: 327
It's an interesting video and well presented, but in my opinion, he's actually got it wrong. At 3:59 he says "there's no light there because the points are open". (he's talking about the "electronic" points in the "igniter" module). Since he's connected the test light to the points side of the coil (and the other end to chassis ground), then surely there is no light there becase the points are closed - not open. When the points open, there will appear 12V at the points side of the coil and so the test light will light.

But, you have to be careful with this. Because this is an inductive circuit, the instant the points open, there is a huge kick voltage generated at the CB terminal of the coil (up to 400V) or so which will damage anything sensitive connected to this terminal (like an oscilloscope or voltmeter). It doesn't much matter for the guy's test light although it might burn out if it's resistance is too low. Automotive test equipment accounts for this, but ordinary Jaycar equipment will not handle it.

It's surprising he doesn't mention the most commoin failure of these devices, and that is, heat. The "igniter" (nice sales terminology) has a transistor in it capable of switching a substantial amperage, but like all electronic devices, is not 100% efficient and the heat generated has to be disipated. If you've ever looked at a car radiio of the period, you can see the power transistors are always large metal-cased items screwed to the chassis (but insulated with mica washers) for the same reason. For these electronic distributors, there is hopefully a small amount of heat conductive grease supplied which is applied to the base plate to reduce heat build up. Sometimes the "igniter" comes good again once it cools down which makes it difficult to find the fault.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 5:08 pm 
Offline
998cc
998cc

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:59 pm
Posts: 968
Location: Holt ACT
I have Pertronix Ignitors fitted to two of my Minis; one a 1275cc and the other a 998cc, both using 29D distributors, and another 998cc (25D dissy) with another brand of electronic ignition. Not that I need it, but I have a spare Pertronix that came my way at a good price so that I'd have a spare, just in case. I also have spare 29D's, just in case. I have not had one iota to trouble with any of the installed units, all of which were installed i/s/w the provided instructions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:17 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:11 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Brisbane Northside
eightfifty wrote:
It's an interesting video and well presented, but in my opinion, he's actually got it wrong. At 3:59 he says "there's no light there because the points are open". (he's talking about the "electronic" points in the "igniter" module). Since he's connected the test light to the points side of the coil (and the other end to chassis ground), then surely there is no light there becase the points are closed - not open. When the points open, there will appear 12V at the points side of the coil and so the test light will light.

But, you have to be careful with this. Because this is an inductive circuit, the instant the points open, there is a huge kick voltage generated at the CB terminal of the coil (up to 400V) or so which will damage anything sensitive connected to this terminal (like an oscilloscope or voltmeter). It doesn't much matter for the guy's test light although it might burn out if it's resistance is too low. Automotive test equipment accounts for this, but ordinary Jaycar equipment will not handle it.

It's surprising he doesn't mention the most commoin failure of these devices, and that is, heat. The "igniter" (nice sales terminology) has a transistor in it capable of switching a substantial amperage, but like all electronic devices, is not 100% efficient and the heat generated has to be disipated. If you've ever looked at a car radiio of the period, you can see the power transistors are always large metal-cased items screwed to the chassis (but insulated with mica washers) for the same reason. For these electronic distributors, there is hopefully a small amount of heat conductive grease supplied which is applied to the base plate to reduce heat build up. Sometimes the "igniter" comes good again once it cools down which makes it difficult to find the fault.


If that is how it is connected you are correct (I haven't rewatched).

Really all the testing in the video is identical to points ignition and is only a basic test.

Early electronic ignition modules had decent sized heatsinks to dissipate the heat and prolong the component life. Newer electronics are more efficient so generate less heat however I still believe it is a bad idea with how they rely on the distributor base as a heatsink. There is no airflow and a small mass. I avoid any electronics in an engine bay, heat decreases component life dramatically and add to that the fact that a lot of modules are made cheaply.

_________________
1986 Mayfair (998 auto), 1974 S, 1974 Van, 1972 PMG Van

Too many minis


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 8:21 am 
Offline
religious status
religious status
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39643
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
I have fitted lots of electronic ignition kits over the years. Pertronix, Accuspark, noname and Powerspark.
One died due to wires reversed by owner.
Two suffered from misfiring after warmup, cause was a dud coil in both cases.
One was a Bosch GT40 3 ohm, the other a Pertronix 3 ohm. Both modules were fine.
Always try with another coil, before condemning the module. :wink:

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:39 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:38 am
Posts: 1504
Location: Brandy Hill, NSW
Any one running the Lumenition's Optronic Ignition. Had one many moons ago on my SD1 and never had any probs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:26 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:11 pm
Posts: 415
Location: Brisbane Northside
cooperess wrote:
Any one running the Lumenition's Optronic Ignition. Had one many moons ago on my SD1 and never had any probs.


I don't have any experience with it but if I was to choose an electronic ignition that would probably be it. I have heard of one failing but that is no sign that they are worse than anything else.

_________________
1986 Mayfair (998 auto), 1974 S, 1974 Van, 1972 PMG Van

Too many minis


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 85 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

© 2016 Ausmini. All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.