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Ken Elder 7 Port Head with pictures
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54673		 Page 1 of 13
Author:  GR [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Ken Elder 7 Port Head with pictures
Hi Everyone,

I finally got one of the seven port ken elder heads to play with,this will be without a doubt the best after market cylinder head on the market today including all sixteen valve heads.

The improved port design will give very high gas speed and in turn give excellent cylinder filling at both high and low speed, this cylinder head in road form will produce 130+ FTLB of torque and 160HP.

A typical engine build for this power would be 1360cc 2X40mm webers one of my camshafts long center branch exhaust and in race form should produce 170+hp.
When I get this motor up and running anybody is quiet welcome to come and see it running on the dyno.

Cheers,
Graham Russell

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Author:  gerg [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Way to go Graham 8) ,now I'll have to start saving my pennies for one of those beauties. :roll: :lol:
Author:  graham in aus [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Great news Graham! Welcome to Ausmini, how about another open day I really enjoyed the last one! You could have the 7 port on the dyno!! :P

Cheers! Graham 8)
Author:  gafmo [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Great to have you here Graham and looking forward to seeing more info on the 7 port and Ill be thier for the next day 8)
Author:  GR [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry - more pictures now.

Thanks,
Graham
Author:  Super-mini [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gday GR,

if you dont mind, approx how much $ are we talking for one of these
and why will it be better than the 16v heads available?
(including bmw motorbike head?)

thanks :)
Author:  lil-ute [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Super-mini wrote:
Gday GR,

if you dont mind, approx how much $ are we talking for one of these
and why will it be better than the 16v heads available?
(including bmw motorbike head?)

thanks :)

if you need to ask you cant afford it and it would be no good on a clubbie
Author:  rehab1964 [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
lil-ute wrote:
Super-mini wrote:
Gday GR,

if you dont mind, approx how much $ are we talking for one of these
and why will it be better than the 16v heads available?
(including bmw motorbike head?)

thanks :)

if you need to ask you cant afford it and it would be no good on a clubbie


but how good would it be on lil-ute? :wink:
Author:  Leighton [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
wow! that is just great..

great workmanship yet again 8)

oh and welcome to Ausmini :)

thanks,

Leighton
Author:  aaron [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Graham, how did you learn to put pics up on here so quick, this new fangled technomolgy seems to be a breeze for you :lol: Takes some people months and they still don't get it.
Author:  simon k [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
aaron wrote:
Graham, how did you learn to put pics up on here so quick, this new fangled technomolgy seems to be a breeze for you :lol: Takes some people months and they still don't get it.


could he have had a helper by chance??

the back of the head looks so strange without inlet ports - in a good way

would be great to see the output on a nice little 1330 road motor with injection - and lil-ute is right, I'd have to ask how much, so I couldn't afford it either
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Super-mini wrote:
Gday GR,

if you dont mind, approx how much $ are we talking for one of these
and why will it be better than the 16v heads available?
(including bmw motorbike head?)

thanks :)


super-mini,,,, some of the problems with "some" 16v cyl heads ability to flow is the lack of avaliability of decent amount of valve "Lift",,, the buckets that are used ontop of the valves for the cam lobes to run on, are aften not very big in diameter & that small diameter restricts the size (or height) of the egg (cam lobe) able to be used,,, Too big a cam used & it will effectively fall over the edge of the bucket & shred everything in the process,,, in the old Lotus twin cam heads it was quite common to "up-size" those buckets by using the bigger Alfa Romeo ones etc (larger diam & meant machining the holes in the head bigger to suit) & then they are able to run bigger eggs (cam lobes) which, in turn, gives higher valve lift & (in some cases,,, but not all)---> More flow.

When we ae talking the difference between one of the 16v heads only able to run about 10mm of lift,,, & the average A-series head can run past 13mm,,, well it makes a big difference in flow for full race donks.... not so much of a concern for street engines tho.

altho in saying all that,,, there is "usually" & in most cases, a far far greater "valve curtain area" avaliable with the 16v heads than any of the A-series type heads (be it 5, 7, or 8 port) ,,, so there is a fair bit of give & take involved ,,, it comes down to what you want to do with the engine,,, road, rally or full race.... & how much money you`re prepared to fork out.

I don`t believe any std-ish 5, 7 or 8 port A-series head can match a std-ish 16v K1200 Bimmer head or large valve KAD head tho,,, I`m not positive on the KAD valve & bucket sizes but with the K1200 Bimmer head`s 4mm valve stems & 2x 26.5mm inlet valves in each cyl,,, times that by 10mm + valve lift,,, well you can work out the combined valve curtain area easy enough... it doesn`t take a rocket scientist to work out which head wins in the flow dept,,, & of course the quad throttle bodies & most of the efi stuff allready comes with the Bimmer heads :-)

:-)

So,,,, Now lets work on improving that std-ish K1200 cyl head the same way anyone worth their salt ports out & fit`s larger valves & opens & de-shrouds & shapes & pollishes chambers,,, lets add those bigger buckets & larger cams togther into the package & lets now get well more than 1/2" (like maybe 15mm) of lift yeah ????,,, then we start a whole new ball game & a far far greater avaliability of flow at higher engine revs,,,, But that`s not to say the low end torque is any better in the bargain.... so again ,& it`s as GR says,,, that`s the sort of thing used for "Full-Race" minis,,, & of course the K1200 heads allready come with 38mm quad throttle bodies :-)

One of the beautys of the age old A-series cyl head is it`s wonderfull low-mid & top end torque creating attributes,,, i believe this will remain similar with the 7 port, so it`s a dam good thing,,, added to the fact that (Like i stated on the other thread about these design heads) is the "Value for money" part of the package where your std issue A-series 3-pipe exhaust & std issue A-series cam will still be retained, so it`s a fairly cheap opperation to change over to a 7 port cyl head (compoared to a 16v conversion) ,,, & that`s all good for the average Joe/Jane Doe race mini driver :-) & as GR says,,, dam good to fully work one to use as a full race item, obviously there are some good numbers happening

Now,,, in saying all that,,, i havn`t seen a 7 port in the flesh yet, i have no experience with them what-so-ever (Yet), so what i`m talking about comes from pure physics & general cyl head design knowlege & experience,,, obviously GR will sort out where within the rev range these 7 port heads will work best ,with what cam & lift & with what valve sizes to suit the differing engine capacities & applications,,, it`s all about "horses for courses" remember -----> """This goes with that at Susan"""

I`m still on the turbo EFI 16v game & i`m sticking with it for quite some time,,,, but if a 7 port head landed in my lap then maybe i would test it on my 1510cc donk :-)

There is also another problem with the 16v heads for anyone concidering using them for N/A Full race applications is the need for special pistons to be sorted to creat some "Decent" race compression ratio (like 13.5:1 or therabouts) The 5, 7, & 8 port heads can simply be shaved to suit nice std issue flat top , allready tried & proven race pistons,,, A Bimmer headed race engine would need some dome-top pistons made to suit , to make some decent full race compression,,, that`s another reason why i simply turbo charge mine :-)

Roady Bimmer applications are not an issue tho.

Elder & GR are doing good things.

sorry for the long rant,,, i just thought that might save GR some time :-)
Author:  aaron [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
simon k wrote:
aaron wrote:
Graham, how did you learn to put pics up on here so quick, this new fangled technomolgy seems to be a breeze for you :lol: Takes some people months and they still don't get it.


could he have had a helper by chance??

the back of the head looks so strange without inlet ports - in a good way


That he may have, and that he has also again just received. His 'puter ate his post, so I have popped down and got him back on track. His next post will be along once he retypes it. Just call me again GR if you have an issue. (GR, it is defiantly the starter motor, ran another battery and earthed it direct to it, and it is still cactus)

Cheers
Aaron
Author:  GR [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Super-mini
Im not sure on the price but I think it will be no more than $4k
Having done a lot of work multi valve heads both 4and 5 valve I have learnt a lot about high speed air and filling cylinders both of which “most” multi valve heads don’t have,( to much valve and port area) this is why you have to use a lot of reves to make them go this is why a lot of small cars get better fuel economy in 4th gear rather than 5th,once they drop under about 4000- 4500 rpm they dont have a lot of air speed to fill the cylinder that’s why they use fuel injection and not carbies(not enough air speed to lift the fuel out of the bowl)
Heres an example KAD engine 1380cc big valve head L1 cosworth cams 12.-1 compression 4x40mm injection throttle bodies, peak torque 110 ft @7000 rpm
104 @6000 below that it fell away badley peak hp173 @8500 and171@9000 rpm
another KAD 1560cc made 5ftlb more and less power due to the longer stroke
A race mini I do 1360cc with a late arden head very hard to work with due to a very bad design and not being able to get the right port shapes it makes 126ftlb torque@5000 still has over 100 ftlb @4000 rpm and 167 hp @7500 as you can see it makes a lot more torque lower down and over a greater rpm range making it a lot easier to drive and not having to rev it as hard .
Now kens new 7 port will be a lot better to work with than the arden hence it should produce better figures, on the bike heads I have worked with I found I had to fill the ports to to get more torque and power from the 250cc 4 cyl up to the big ones
Now don’t get me wrong 4 valve heads do have their place but on a mini in my opinion ill stick to the 7 port.
Hope this helps.
Graham Russell
Author:  poeee [ Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I love the idea of a 7 port (using easily obtainable exhaust setups), and if you say it's as good, if not better than anything else you can wack on top of an A series, then i'm sold.

I'll have to find a big piggy bank and start saving.
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