ausmini :: View topic - Cooper S #4772 ID plate on ebay

What would you do in a similar situation?

(a) A Mark 1 Cooper S that competed at Bathurst, has the original engine block but with various body and mechanical changes since it raced.

(b) A BMC works rally Cooper S that competed in the Southern Cross rally but has had most of its works items removed and substantial body changes so it looks like a normal road-going car.

(c) A genuine one-owner MK II Cooper S that is in absolute concours condition with original sales documents and service history, and all original parts and panels in place.

(d) The MK II Cooper S I bought new from Kellow-Falkiner in 1969, but with many replaced parts (seats, wheels, Weber in lieu of SU's, etc.) and some replaced panels.

My head says a, b or c but my heart says d.

What would you do in a similar situation?

Repairing/original: the radiator shroud and firewall have never been removed, it has been repaired around these two items

Rebirth: the firwall and shroud have been removed and placed on another shell.

I will stick to the Morris 1100's. For some reason there is not a lot of faking going on. :lol:

(except when they try to sell an 1100 as an 1100S

)

Have you noticed that there is a lot of experts in the subject of re-birthing on this forum. :shock:

I hope that the police are not looking.

I probably qualify as an expert on this matter being an ex-cop and having worked in the Crime unit in QLD. Re-birthing is just that, changing the identity of the vehicle, whether or not the car is stolen.

What would a nice original Cooper S be worth this days, there are a few on Carsales with price tags of $35K $30K etc but they have been there for ages, one thing asking these prices, getting it is another. If I was in the market to buy one a nice clean original or restored car, not concourse but one that needed no work, just jump in drive and enjoy, what sort of money would you be looking at today? I sold my last 1969 Mk2 Cooper S in 1998 it was a very nice original S, I got $12,000 for it in 1998.
I wouldn't mind buying another but would not pay $30k plus for one.

What would a nice original Cooper S be worth this days, there are a few on Carsales with price tags of $35K $30K etc.

This thread has been most interesting
I am currently stripping a 67..
couple questions...

1) The body stamp underneath matches the plate above, however the numbers on the body have faded with Rust... Is it legal to restamp the number in after I have restored the mini?

2) the radiator shroud stamp is different from the body which tells me it has been replaced.. funny thing is after cleaning the shroud I noticed that the top of the shroud where the number is has been cut out and welded in. This tells me that the car maybe made up from 3 cars (well the radiator shroud is from 2 anyway)

3) as the car didnt come with an engine I would have to put a new one in, thats another number.....

4) after restoring the mini is it Legal to apply a "NEW" plate showing the new colour, the New engine number and the correct shell no?

I am not trying to pass it off as anything other than what it is, a 67 Deluxe

Author:	AEG163job [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:
winabbey wrote: What would you do in a similar situation? To hard to contemplate, so I would go out & buy a Valiant

Author:	MG Rocket [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:
winabbey wrote: (a) A Mark 1 Cooper S that competed at Bathurst, has the original engine block but with various body and mechanical changes since it raced. (b) A BMC works rally Cooper S that competed in the Southern Cross rally but has had most of its works items removed and substantial body changes so it looks like a normal road-going car. (c) A genuine one-owner MK II Cooper S that is in absolute concours condition with original sales documents and service history, and all original parts and panels in place. (d) The MK II Cooper S I bought new from Kellow-Falkiner in 1969, but with many replaced parts (seats, wheels, Weber in lieu of SU's, etc.) and some replaced panels. My head says a, b or c but my heart says d. What would you do in a similar situation? (c) would have to be the best car and in my opinion should be worth the most. Although the racing fraternity and auction houses would disagree. But I wouldn't drive it so I would never own it. (d) is the car I would actually buy and I would drive it (I'd give it back it's twin carbies tho'!)

Author:	MG Rocket [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Goldbrocade_62 wrote: Repairing/original: the radiator shroud and firewall have never been removed, it has been repaired around these two items Rebirth: the firwall and shroud have been removed and placed on another shell. I have a solution to this dilemma. Bolt a jig to the floor and carefully and accurately fix the position of shroud and firewall, cut away the rusted/damaged body and offer up the new body sans firewall and shroud. Remove jig and we have only repaired the car. We have not transfered them another car On a serious note, I think the price of a well done "rebirth" would never equal the price of a truly original unmolested car. I would always feel far more "comfortable" driving around a "fake" than a true original.

Author:	low n blown [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Have you noticed that there is a lot of experts in the subject of re-birthing on this forum. I hope that the police are not looking.[/quote] I probably qualify as an expert on this matter being an ex-cop and having worked in the Crime unit in QLD. Re-birthing is just that, changing the identity of the vehicle, whether or not the car is stolen.

Author:	simon k [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Morris 1100 wrote: I will stick to the Morris 1100's. For some reason there is not a lot of faking going on. (except when they try to sell an 1100 as an 1100S ) I know someone with a Riley Kestrel who thinks it might have started life as a Morris 1100!

ausmini https://www.ausmini.com/forums/

Cooper S #4772 ID plate on ebay https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65525	Page 6 of 8

Author:	MG Rocket [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:09 pm ]
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Morris wrote: Have you noticed that there is a lot of experts in the subject of re-birthing on this forum. I hope that the police are not looking. low'n blown wrote: I probably qualify as an expert on this matter being an ex-cop and having worked in the Crime unit in QLD. Re-birthing is just that, changing the identity of the vehicle, whether or not the car is stolen. The police can look all they like....I'm never likely to restore a Cooper but it wouldn't bother me at all to own and drive what you call a "fake" or "rebirth". If I was to buy a Cooper S and it is beautifully "faked" with deceased numbers as long as I was aware of the work done on the car, I would still pay good dollar for it. I would see it as an exceptional reproduction. And just in case you're wondering I once paid a premium for a car (Mk 2 Jag) that was not what the owner said it was and I was gutted. But I was too keen to own the car so it was my fault. Will not ever happen again. It's only a fake if the owner fails to notify the potential new owner of the work. Which is why I think a dead register is a good idea. And if people get these numbers and use them to make exceptional reproductions?....In my book that is a good use of these numbers and plates. And I can not see why the police should be concerned with anybody making good reproductions..as long as we know what they are. My opinion..not yours. My money....not yours or the the police if I ever should buy a "fake".

Author:	Drewie [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:19 pm ]
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There are some very nice replicas out there that are probably nicer than some genuine cars, this replica that is on Carsales is a very nice 'Replica' and I would be happy to have it in my garage, just lacks a set of numbers. Makes you think are a set of numbers worth an extra $10k or so? http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/pr ... B061F992FB

Author:	low n blown [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:45 pm ]
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22k for a replica. Rather have the real thing thanks. Try telling the missus a cubic is just as good as a real diamond, and see how it goes down. Problem with a fake is you will always know its a fake. No matter how nice it looks, goes, handles, its never the real thing.

Author:	GT mowog [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:49 pm ]
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low'n blown wrote: 22k for a replica. Damm nice job though, very nice car but about 7 to 10 over the mark I'd say.

Author:	drmini in aust [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:
IMO (having owned one) an S replica is only worth about 1/2 the real thing. But at least you can be game to use them, not just drive once a year to rego inspection like a friend of mine does.

Author:	Drewie [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:
What would a nice original Cooper S be worth this days, there are a few on Carsales with price tags of $35K $30K etc but they have been there for ages, one thing asking these prices, getting it is another. If I was in the market to buy one a nice clean original or restored car, not concourse but one that needed no work, just jump in drive and enjoy, what sort of money would you be looking at today? I sold my last 1969 Mk2 Cooper S in 1998 it was a very nice original S, I got $12,000 for it in 1998. I wouldn't mind buying another but would not pay $30k plus for one.

Author:	Monaco [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:
Drewie wrote: What would a nice original Cooper S be worth this days, there are a few on Carsales with price tags of $35K $30K etc but they have been there for ages, one thing asking these prices, getting it is another. If I was in the market to buy one a nice clean original or restored car, not concourse but one that needed no work, just jump in drive and enjoy, what sort of money would you be looking at today? I sold my last 1969 Mk2 Cooper S in 1998 it was a very nice original S, I got $12,000 for it in 1998. I wouldn't mind buying another but would not pay $30k plus for one. $20,000 to 23,000 - Can still find a good driver. I have seen a number of reasonable original cars (that need paint etc..) that have sold recently for $12,000 - 15,000. I also know of a number of cars in pieces that have sold for $5,000 to 9,000. I think the Classic Throttle Shop can be thanked for increasing the values of Coopers and 850's in recent times!

Author:	GT mowog [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:54 am ]
Post subject:
Drewie wrote: What would a nice original Cooper S be worth this days, there are a few on Carsales with price tags of $35K $30K etc. There was a posting not long ago with reference to the blue book being up-dated and suggesting a category 1 Cooper S would be valued in the $40k's. I know a guy (he sold his 308GTS Ferrari to put that money in to his already very GC Cooper S ) who about 25 years ago now got $38k for that one. Funny thing was he was only asking $35k and hoping to get $30k, but there were 3 buyers fighting to get their hands on it...... Cars with this kind of price tag are sometime slow to sell but there certainly are buyers out there - in small numbers - who will pay the price for the right car. After all, they are only going one way in price.

Author:	DartzMan [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:05 am ]
Post subject:	ID plate
This thread has been most interesting I am currently stripping a 67.. couple questions... 1) The body stamp underneath matches the plate above, however the numbers on the body have faded with Rust... Is it legal to restamp the number in after I have restored the mini? 2) the radiator shroud stamp is different from the body which tells me it has been replaced.. funny thing is after cleaning the shroud I noticed that the top of the shroud where the number is has been cut out and welded in. This tells me that the car maybe made up from 3 cars (well the radiator shroud is from 2 anyway) 3) as the car didnt come with an engine I would have to put a new one in, thats another number..... 4) after restoring the mini is it Legal to apply a "NEW" plate showing the new colour, the New engine number and the correct shell no? I am not trying to pass it off as anything other than what it is, a 67 Deluxe

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Author:	Morris 1100 [ Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: ID plate
DartzMan wrote: This thread has been most interesting I am currently stripping a 67.. couple questions... 1) The body stamp underneath matches the plate above, however the numbers on the body have faded with Rust... Is it legal to restamp the number in after I have restored the mini? I would just try and clean it up and avoid restamping it. They rust because the number is stamped after the car is painted. DartzMan wrote: 2) the radiator shroud stamp is different from the body which tells me it has been replaced.. funny thing is after cleaning the shroud I noticed that the top of the shroud where the number is has been cut out and welded in. This tells me that the car maybe made up from 3 cars (well the radiator shroud is from 2 anyway) The radiator shroud was stamped at a different time and at a different location by a different person using different stamps. They were stamped before the car was painted and are usually full of paint! DartzMan wrote: 3) as the car didnt come with an engine I would have to put a new one in, thats another number..... DartzMan wrote: 4) after restoring the mini is it Legal to apply a "NEW" plate showing the new colour, the New engine number and the correct shell no? You can do whatever you want with the ID plate as it has no legal requirement or status. But if you do go down the road of stamping a blank plate you will probably unknowingly make the car look like a fake! DartzMan wrote: I am not trying to pass it off as anything other than what it is, a 67 Deluxe