G'day,
I've done about 1,800 miles in Minnie after a complete resto and today I noticed a slight "clunk clunk" from the LH front wheel while braking. Only notice it just as the car slows to a stop. Haven't noticed any noise before today.
Jacked her up when I got back home and there's a bit of play when you wobble the wheel with your hands on the top and bottom of the tyre. Not big heaps but there is some movement and a noise when rocking the wheel. Same on the drivers side but not as bad. The movement is not in the hub ball joints, it appears to be in the wheel bearings.

The rebuild history on the front end is drum brakes, used the old hubs, new CV's, new Timken tapered bearings, new drive flanges and new drive flange oil seal collars.

I followed the "how to" written by Doc when fitting up the bearings (I did grease the bearings 1st though) and used some Loctite on the bearing cups when I fitted them. From memory, the driver's side hub went together with no free play when torqued to 60lb. The passenger side had some movement so I reduced the thickness of the spacer between the bearings so when torqued up to 60lb, there was no play. This was all done with the hubs on the work bench and the amount of play on the drive shafts was felt without the wheels on.

When checking today, the split pins were still in place and I checked the torque. Bit hard to gauge accurately what the actual torque was but at a setting of 60lb, the torque wrench clicked when I tried to tighten the nut.

To check that the movement I had was the wheel bearing, I backed off the nut and I end up with heaps of the same movement I had so my guess is that the bearings have now worn in a bit and I've ended up with some play.

How do I go about fixing this please.

1/. I've read that you shouldn't torque the nuts more than 60lb - is that right? If I could torque them higher, would that be an easy fix? And if so, what torque?
2/. I'm guessing that to reduce the free play, I need to reduce the thickness of the spacer between the bearings. Can I do this without removing the hubs from the car? I was thinking of removing the drive flange, taking out the seal, take out the outer cone and the spacer - leaving the inner bearing in place. Would that work?
3/. If I need to reduce the thickness of the spacer, how do I judge how much I need to take off them?

My preference is to try and fix this with the hubs still on the car so any suggestions welcome please.

Thanks Rocky

If there is looseness with the nut torqued up to 60, the spacer needs to be shorter. How much shorter? Put a dial gauge on the end of the CV shaft, push and pull the drive flange in and out.
The dial gauge needs to be mounted on the hub, on a bracket or magnetic base.
Say you have 5 thou end float, take 7 thou off the spacer thickness. This will give 2 thou preload in theory but slightly less in practice.
The spacer needs to be parallel both ends, surface grind it or face it in a lathe.

You can remove the outer bearing cone once the seal is pried out. Use a magnetic pickup or a bent bit of wire to pull the spacer out.
Personally I would pop the ball joints and pull the hub off. Easier to do on the bench.

I've never had this happen, were they genuine Timken, or noname bearings?

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Thanks Doc.
Sounds like I've got a job to do over the next few days. I don't have a dial gauge but might be able to borrow one - the the bloke who owns it - to make the job more accurate.

The bearings were purchased from minispares as genuine timken. I can't remember now if the bearings themselves have the timken name on them but will check when I pull them out.

Another question please about the castle nut when setting the torque. I've torqued them up again just before and at 60lb, I can't get a split pin to go through either of the holes in the shaft. When I did them originally, the holes were close and I could put the split pin in ok. Do I just tighten them up a bit more so I can get the pin in? I'm mindful of over tightening the nut.

Thanks Rocky

Hey Doc, I might be on the wrong track with what's wrong. After your comment that you haven't had the same issue with the bearings, it got me thinking that if you hadn't seen it then maybe something else is my problem.

When I was looking for the reason for the play, the first thing I thought of was the bearings as with other cars and hubs that I've worked on, I didn't have to consider the swivel hub ball joints. Obviously when I loosened the nut, the bearings were loose and this made me believe the play is in the bearings. However, I've checked things out again and I reckon I can see a bit of movement in the hub upper ball joint on the passenger side - that's the side with the most play. Can't see anything on the lower joint. Can't see anything on the driver's side upper but there's bugger all play on that side, just a mild clunk when I wobble the wheel.

So now I'm thinking that my issue is with the ball joint. I had dramas fitting them as the first set I got I just couldn't get right so I got hold of a NOS set of Rover ones. Looks like I didn't have them tight enough with the shims, although I did get a retired mechanic here to check them out and he thought they'd be ok. The roads around here are terrible so maybe that's resulted in a bit of wear.

Guessing I'll need to take the hubs off the car to re-do the shims - is it possible to do them in place?

Rocky

Re the split pin, tighten to 60 ft lb with drum hubs, then to the next split pin hole if needed.

It's much easier to do balljoints off the car, but you need a way to hold the hub due to its weird shape. I have a steel plate with 4 holes for the studs and a big hole in the middle. I hold it in the vice. Maybe use an old wheel centre?
Note the balljoint cup is 72 ft lb torque, you need a deep socket.
If it comes off when driving it's scary..!

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Thanks Doc.
I've got the deep socket and yes, they are a bugger to hold in the vise.
Can I just slip the hub off the driveshaft and leave the shaft and CV still in place?
I was thinking of undoing the brake backing plate and hopefully the rubber brake hose is long enough to allow the backing plate to clear the hub. Getting to the brake lines is a bit difficult with the motor in. I assembled them before I put the motor in to make it easier.

Rocky

Yes you can remove the CV nut and slip the whole hub off but I would leave the drive flange in it, with the bearings.

When doing balljoints on disc hubs i have a spare CV I use to hold everything together on the bench.
Could do the same with a drum hub.
As long as your bearings will slide off the drive flange.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

If it’s twin cylinder front drums it’s a pain as the backing plate can’t come off unless you undo the linking brake pipe and lose a bunch of fluid.

And Kev, the ball joint nut/cap torque, mine says 40ft/lb or am I looking at the wrong thing? I did mine up to 40 and now I’m worried it’s not enough

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Timmy the nut is 40 the cap is 72.
It's in some manuals not all.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

A query in regard to the above. I was taught to hold the wheel at 12 O-Clock and 6 O-Clock to check for movement in the Ball Joints and 3 O-Clock and 9 O-Clock to check the wheel bearing. Any comment please.

Fair enough ..you're not going to notice much ball joint movement if you waggle the wheel in the horizontal plane (hands at 3 and 9).

However, relying on 3 and 9 movement may mislead if the looseness is in the steering arm...

Best to think about what's going on than rather than relying on rigid rules...

Cheers, Ian

So would you call it a "Steering knuckle ball pin retainer"?

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Yes

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Gents,

An update on my repairs today. I've pulled the swivel hub off and the top ball joint was loose but also "chunky" when moved. Pulled it apart and looks like I've got some damage on the small end of the joint where it sits in the little cup in the hub.

Given that it looks like my problem is with the ball joint and not the wheel bearings, I thought I'd post a new thread so as not to look for answers under a wheel bearing thread.

Cheers, Rocky