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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:42 pm 
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We know SPO41 specification cars commenced with Car 2372 in Sept 70. However, it is incorrect to conclude that all Police Cooper 'S's prior to this were stock standard cars.

I have been doing some research on an ex-Police Cooper 'S' that has been in storage since the very early 80's with a known history that goes back much earlier. This car is earlier than Car 2372, however has lowered seats, reversing lights as well as all the tell tale holes etc..... The car is Larke Hoskins delivered and is very original (wheels, steering wheel, paint and carpet). What is interesting is that it appears to have had porting work. I won't know what else until the motor is pulled down. However, these cars were not stock standard and definitely had police specific changes (mechanical to be confirmed).

Please don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting SPO41 commenced before car 2372. However, it is likely that this was either a formalisation of a production order, the replacement of a prior production order or a reflection of additional inclusions within a production order.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:55 am 
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Back then I was told their heads were ported by Lynx Engineering in Sydney.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:24 am 
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Monaco wrote:
We know SPO41 specification cars commenced with Car 2372 in Sept 70. However, it is incorrect to conclude that all Police Cooper 'S's prior to this were stock standard cars.

I have been doing some research on an ex-Police Cooper 'S' that has been in storage since the very early 80's with a known history that goes back much earlier. This car is earlier than Car 2372, however has lowered seats, reversing lights as well as all the tell tale holes etc..... The car is Larke Hoskins delivered and is very original (wheels, steering wheel, paint and carpet). What is interesting is that it appears to have had porting work. I won't know what else until the motor is pulled down. However, these cars were not stock standard and definitely had police specific changes (mechanical to be confirmed).

Please don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting SPO41 commenced before car 2372. However, it is likely that this was either a formalisation of a production order, the replacement of a prior production order or a reflection of additional inclusions within a production order.

My understanding is all cars prior to the SPO41 car number you quote were stock standard from a performance viewpoint. However we know they did have changes on the production line for the Police contract, such as SPO16 (lowered frame front seats), SPO25 (reversing lights) and SPO26 (competition disk brake pads). It will be interesting to see if any head work was done to that earlier car and, if so, whether it can be shown it was done by BMC or a previous owner.

I've had several people say Lynx did the head and inlet manifold modifications for SPO41 but there's nothing in writing I've found.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:56 am 
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Hi All
Back in the day the Cooper S did not reach the required speed of 100 MPH that's why the were modified, cam, head, and 1.5 carbies, the cam was 731 BMC grind but BERT JONES in Parramatta was grinding his version of it a little bigger for the police cars, I think I still have one of these grinds but it has a little bend in it :lol: ,ROY Goodman was working for LYNX ENGINEERING at the time was doing the heads for them, a lot were run on the dyno there and there top speed was 102/103 MPH.
Graham Russell

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:10 am 
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The head on my car is stamped GRD up near the thermostat which I was told was Goodman Racing Developments (Ron Goodman)

Also has a Z stamped down the other end.

Would that be Roy and I've got the name wrong?? There is also a Ron Goodman involved in racing so I'm a bit confused.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Hi Phillb
That would be ROY, and the head you have is a head done later when he left LYNX and started his own company called Goodman Racing Developments, hence the GRD. I am not sure but I think the police heads had the LYNX stamp on them, a little round circle with the letters stamped in side them.
Graham Russell

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:01 pm 
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GR wrote:
I am not sure but I think the police heads had the LYNX stamp on them,a little
round circle with the letters stamped in side them.


Doug have you found any markings on your head?

I'm sure my motor has been rebuilt in my GT before and My head wasn't bolted down when I got it, so am unsure if my head is the original.

Brenton

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:35 pm 
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I thought the following documents may be useful to those with an interest in Cooper S pursuit cars supplied to NSW Police.

Whenever I make a statement about the specifications of these cars I'm very careful to quote reliable sources, either BMC or NSW Police documents, historical photos of genuine cars in service, examination of the components of actual vehicles like my reasonably unmolested MK II S, or discussions with retired Police who drove or worked on the cars back in the day. Of course many of the police I've spoken to or exchanged emails with are in their senior years and some don't have as clear a memory as others. It makes sense to me to use the above evidence as a starting point for further debate on the specification ex-factory or possible changes that were done in the field. In other words, treat that data as fact until proven otherwise.

The first six Cooper S's for NSW Police were on the road in June 1966. Service Liaison Summary (SLS) #132 below describes the Special Production Orders that applied to these cars. Interestingly it says the reversing lights were operated by a switch on the gearbox remote control, whereas SPO41 included the switch on the front of the gearbox. Maybe they were the same thing but just badly worded. Monaco - how are the reversing lights switched on the Mark 1 car you mention?

To date I haven't sighted any evidence to suggest these cars were other than stock standard from a performance perspective but I'm very happy to change my view if evidence is forthcoming. Maybe 'the truth' is out there somewhere? :)

The first page of BMC's internal use SPO41 specification document includes reference to the previous SPO's that applied to NSW Police vehicles (as per the SLS). It also shows car #2372 as the first to be built to SPO41. Also below is SLS #212 that presents the modifications to BMC Dealers so they can service the cars in the field. It's basically a reduced version of the SPO41 document.

I've been working on a document for some time that details most of what I've discovered to date. I update it when new information comes to light. It's 16 pages and growing. Included are all the BMC engineering drawing references for SPO41 parts (HS4's, inlet manifold, heat shield, tacho and warning light installation, etc.), the standard Cooper S parts removed and special parts added on the production line, plus details of the accessories and Police equipment fitted after delivery to NSW Police. I'm happy to provide a copy to those with a genuine interest (some of you have it already). :wink:

I also have lots of historical press clippings from NSW newspapers, NSW Police News, articles in BMC Rosette newspaper and other material that has assisted in my research. But I'm always learning. That knowledge helps in answering questions to those Mini enthusiasts new to the topic.

Attachment:
SLS 132 Nov 67.jpg
Attachment:
SPO 41 page 1.jpg
Attachment:
SLS 212 Oct 70 v2.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:45 pm 
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GR wrote:
Hi Phillb
That would be ROY, and the head you have is a head done later when he left LYNX and started his own company called Goodman Racing Developments, hence the GRD. I am not sure but I think the police heads had the LYNX stamp on them,a little
round circle with the letters stamped in side them.
Graham Russell


Thank you Graham for clearing that up. I obviously had the name wrong. Cheers.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:40 pm 
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Bubbacluby wrote:
Doug have you found any markings on your head?

I haven't removed the head and it's covered in grease and dirt. After a quick clean just now I can't see a Lynx marking in an obvious place. It does have the 12G1805 factory stamp near the thermostat and a couple of indistinct markings on the flat areas at both ends. I'll have another look when it's removed and cleaned.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:25 pm 
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Thanks for sharing your info Doug. I love reading about Police stuff. We had an ex-pursuit XR Falcon as a kid.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:31 am 
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winabbey wrote:
Bubbacluby wrote:
Doug have you found any markings on your head?

I haven't removed the head and it's covered in grease and dirt. After a quick clean just now I can't see a Lynx marking in an obvious place. It does have the 12G1805 factory stamp near the thermostat and a couple of indistinct markings on the flat areas at both ends. I'll have another look when it's removed and cleaned.


Of the later Mk2 'S' heads I have seen, it is not uncommon to see various letter stamps on the flats near the heater and thermostat including K, A, Z and S. I am not sure what these mean?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:32 am 
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Monaco wrote:
winabbey wrote:
Bubbacluby wrote:
Doug have you found any markings on your head?

I haven't removed the head and it's covered in grease and dirt. After a quick clean just now I can't see a Lynx marking in an obvious place. It does have the 12G1805 factory stamp near the thermostat and a couple of indistinct markings on the flat areas at both ends. I'll have another look when it's removed and cleaned.


Of the later Mk2 'S' heads I have seen, it is not uncommon to see various letter stamps on the flats near the heater and thermostat including K, A, Z and S. I am not sure what these mean?

Me too - I've seen the markings but don't know their meaning. One of the marks on my head looks like the three prongs in the centre of a Mercedes logo, much like the letter Y.

In the last day or two since this topic gained momentum GR has been chatting to various people who were involved in the development and production of the BMC components for police use. Apparently BMC Australia dictated that the head was not to be stamped with the Lynx logo as they didn't want the outside world to know the source was anything other than BMC. Some of those GR knew from the old Lynx days have now sadly passed on, so more of the truth has been lost, unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:35 pm 
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How was 2372 nominated as the change point?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:41 pm 
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minijcar wrote:
How was 2372 nominated as the change point?

Presumably that was the first car where the SPO41 components were available for production and any contractual and assembly details sorted. Both parties would've wanted the upgraded car sooner rather than later I would think.

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