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 Post subject: SU tune procedure
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:37 pm 
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1360cc
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This is an old SU procedure I used for my former multi-carb car.

Do you see any problems with it for a Mini/Moke?

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To tune SU carbs, first locate the following components:

- Throttle linkage nuts. These are the things that connect the throttle linkage (the bar connected to your foot through whatever means your car uses, cables or rods) to the carburetors' throttle levers.

- Throttle stop screws. These set the idle speed for each carb, and are located typically behind the dashpot, on the same side of the carb to which the throttle linkage connects.

- Mixture adjusting nut. This is the lower of the two nuts at the very bottom of the carburetor. Later SU carburetors of the HIF type have integral float chambers, on which the mixture is adjusted by turning a screw. You'll need to experiment (and I
explain how) to see which way makes this richer and which way makes it leaner.

- Lifting pins. These are little wobbly metal pins under the dashpot. When you push up on the pin, it raises the piston in the dashpot. Find these; they're crucial if you don't have a Colortune. If you don't have or can't find them, you can raise the piston with a flat-bladed screwdriver pushed down the throat of the carb and twisted to lift it.

- The bridge. This is the part inside the carburetor, where the gas jet opens into the airstream. You'll see a needle inside the jet, and the jet itself should be a few fractions of an inch down from the bridge itself. The jet is the brass tube that sits in the center of the bridge, with a tapered needle poking down into it.

- The choke linkage nuts. Comparable to the throttle linkage nuts (and usually the same size), but on the linkage that goes between the choke cable and the mixture adjustment mechanism. They make sure that both carbs are enriched when you pull on the choke.

Balancing The Air Flow* multi carb only

1. Start with the engine warmed up to operating temperature and perform your standard ignition tune-up (points gap, timing, spark plug gap, new condenser, etc.) first. If you've got a timing light and a dwell meter, you can verify all that stuff independent of the way the car is running. When it's warm, shut the motor off and remove the air filters.

2. Begin by balancing the air flow. To do this, first loosen the throttle linkage nuts. Leave them connected, just loosen them half a turn or so.

3. Back out the throttle stop screws till you can see that they are just touching the throttle stop. Then open each carburetor (that is, lower the throttle stop screw) 1-1/2 turns of the throttle stop screw and start the engine. It will probably idle at about
2000 RPM; don't worry.

4. Put the Unisyn over either carb and adjust the orifice in the Unisyn till the little float at the side rests at the middle of its graduated tube. (Pre-diagnostics: if the idle drops and the car wants to die when you slap on the Unisyn, the carb is too rich; if the idle soars upwards, it's too lean.) Hold the Unisyn over the carb for only long enough to see the level of the float, then remove it.

5. Place the Unisyn on each carburetor in turn to check its flow, adjusting the throttle stop screws until both carburetors register the same position on the graduated tube of the Unisyn. (The float will probably move either up or down in the tube, which is why you want to center it in Step 4.) When both carburetors flow the same amount of air, tighten the throttle linkage nuts, adjusting for the amount of free-play between the linkage and the throttle stops that your manual calls for (probably about 0.006"). Your goal should be to achieve the lowest possible idle with both carbs balanced and the engine running smoothly. (Note that the idle speed will very probably rise as you get the mixture correct.)

If you've taken more than five minutes to do this, rev the engine to over 2500 RPM (assuming the idle isn't already that high) for thirty seconds or so to clear the spark plugs. Then adjust the mixture.

Adjusting The Mixture:

Note: in the following procedure, one "flat" is the basic increment of adjustment, and refers to 1/6 of a turn of the mixture adjusting nut.
This corresponds to the flat faces on the nut.

peer down the throat of the carb and turn the mixture screw while watching the top of the jet. Remember that moving the top of the jet up will lean out that carb, while moving
the top of the jet down will richen it.

1. Shut the car off and loosen the choke linkage nuts.

2. Adjust the mixture nuts (screws) fully lean.

For separate float-chamber cars, this means raising the mixture nut all the way up against the bottom of the carb (or rather, against the spring). For HIF carbs, you can try turning the screw while looking down the throat to see which way the jet is moving. In either case, the idea is to zero out the jet: raise it all the way up in the bridge.

3. Now drop the jet an equal amount -- two full turns for HS-type carbs, two full turns (I believe) for HIFs. Then start the car.

Note: In the following step, you might want to consider adjusting the carburetors one-half a flat too lean, as the mixture will be enriched when you put the air filters (which restrict air flow) on at the end of the tuning process.

4. Raise the lifting pin (or use a screwdriver if you don't have the pins) so that the piston rises no more than 1/16". Listen to the engine's exhaust note and compare it to the following conditions:

- If the exhaust note rises and stays high till you drop the piston, this carburetor is adjusted too rich. Turn the mixture nut one flat (one-sixth of a turn) up, moving the jet toward the bridge, then repeat Step 4.

- If the exhaust note falls and the car sounds as though it is going to stall, this carburetor is adjusted too lean. Turn the mixture nut one flat (one-sixth of a turn) down, moving the jet away from the bridge, then repeat Step 4.

- If the exhaust note rises briefly and then settles back down to something like the original RPM level, this carburetor is set correctly. When you have achieved this setting for both carburetors, continue with Step 5.

5. Tighten the choke linkage nuts so that the choke cable will pull an equal amount on both mixture nuts when you pull the knob.

6. At this time, I find I usually have to adjust the idle again because getting the fuel mixture right usually changes the idle speed. Since you know you have the throttles synchronized, I normally just adjust the idle without loosening the throttle linkage. The easiest way is to screw one of the screws out till it doesnt' even touch the throttle stop, then use the other to get the idle speed right. When that's done, you can screw the other stop screw down till it just touches the stop on that carb and you're set.

7. Replace the air filters and go for a test drive!

Notes

SU carburetors are most fuel-efficient when slightly lean, and provide the most power when they are slightly rich. You can use this knowledge to provide a certain amount of tuning for the kind of driving you do. If you learn to read spark plugs, you can get a basic idea of what your engine's condition is and make fine adjustments to the mixture nuts accordingly.

You can also modify your car's throttle response characteristics slightly by adjusting the viscosity of the oil in the dashpot damper. SUs are set up so that a thicker oil will resist the piston's attempt to rise in the dashpot for just long enough that the engine's increased load (when the throttle is opened) will pull more fuel across the bridge; this enriches the mixture and temporarily bumps power up to help the engine achieve higher speed more readily.

If you modify your engine, you will probably need to modify your needles, as it is the needle profile that determines the mixture curve for different air-fuel loads.

If you experience uneven idle, hunting, or an idle that changes (rises or falls) as the engine's temperature climbs or drops, you probably have vacuum leaks. The most serious fault on most old SUs is wear in the throttle shaft area. To test for this, spray some carburetor cleaner on the outside of the throttle shaft; carburetor cleaner is non-combustible, and if the engine speed drops, it means some of this is getting into the air stream from outside the carburetor. You may also have leaks from the manifolds, from tubing such as the vacuum advance line to the distributor (if fitted), or from other places; the carb cleaner trick works well for locating those leaks as well.

Other problems that SU carbs experience involve dirt in the dashpot and occasionally in the float chamber. The dashpot is a precision piece of machining that involves very close tolerances so that the piston doesn't stick or bind when it rises and falls. A little grit
between the piston and the dashpot can make the car jerk and sputter.

Take the dashpot off, wipe the insides down with carb cleaner and a lint-free, clean rag, then reinstall it, getting the screws down tight. Also, don't swap the pistons between dashpots; they're matched to one another so that the clearance between the piston and the wall of the dashpot makes a tight seal but permits easy rising and falling.

Dirt in the float bowl basically shuts off that carburetor (or can make it flood open, depending on whether the dirt is wedging the valve open or closed). You can try rapping on the float bowl with the handle of a screwdriver, but your best bet is to take the cover off, clean out the valve fittings, and reinstall everything, with a new fuel filter for good measure.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:56 pm 
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848cc
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Location: Canberra
Many thanks for the info.

Certainly looks like a "how to".

Cheers,
Rob.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Sheer brilliance. I was never able to properly balance and tune my twin HS2's when I had them.. now I know why :)

Definitely worthy as a HowTo.

P.S. Call me naiive, but what's a Unisyn?

--s


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:43 am 
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1360cc
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sgc wrote:
Sheer brilliance. I was never able to properly balance and tune my twin HS2's when I had them.. now I know why :)

Definitely worthy as a HowTo.

P.S. Call me naiive, but what's a Unisyn?

--s


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:47 pm 
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1275cc
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BUMP....

maybe become a sticky somewhere ? or a howto...?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:51 pm 
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Seconded

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:16 pm 
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thirded

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:25 pm 
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1275cc
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iI used this same set of instruction's a couple of month's, ago, i found them on a mini website age's ago and saved them,( can;t remember which site now).i followed them
thru the step by step process and found them easy to use , and they actually work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:33 pm 
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1360cc
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They are actually a procedure developed for the triple SU carb Jags - modified for twin and single use.

I have used and updated this over the last ten years and incorporates bits and pieces from all over the place.

It requires modification to incorporate the carbs with the adjustment knob at the back of the carb instead of the screw. It will be updated with that info when I work out the settings as they appear to be different.

I also have one for single Weber if anybody wants it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:53 pm 
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sticky anyone?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:00 pm 
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1360cc
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The decent contribution I make to this place and didnt even get a stickey - booooooooooo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:29 pm 
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I can't make it a sticky but I think the "How To" is a better Idea so we can find it later and it keeps it off the top of Chat.

Bloke well done :wink: a few worthy post :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:31 pm 
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1360cc
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gafmo wrote:
I can't make it a sticky but I think the "How To" is a better Idea so we can find it later and it keeps it off the top of Chat.

Bloke well done :wink: a few worthy post :shock:


But I posted it 2 years ago !!!! So now I just the annoying menace - the sadness and disappointment of not getting this post made into a sticky was just too traumatic and turned me into the thoughtless post monkey I now am - shame on you all shame


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:31 pm 
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blokeinamoke wrote:

I also have one for single Weber if anybody wants it.


My hand is up for a copy of the weber

Brian

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:18 pm 
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1275cc
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blokeinamoke wrote:
gafmo wrote:
I can't make it a sticky but I think the "How To" is a better Idea so we can find it later and it keeps it off the top of Chat.

Bloke well done :wink: a few worthy post :shock:


But I posted it 2 years ago !!!! So now I just the annoying menace - the sadness and disappointment of not getting this post made into a sticky was just too traumatic and turned me into the thoughtless post monkey I now am - shame on you all shame


Nice work, but I was hoping to see some info on setting float chamber levels - HS2/4.
Your'e not holding out on us again, are you Bloke? :lol:

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