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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:00 pm 
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Morris 1100 has the same CVs as an S, and disc style swivel hubs (OK- bigger than Mini) but it may be an easy upgrade to fit Metro turbo calipers and rotors?

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 Post subject: 2c
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:26 pm 
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I can see this car porpoising down the road between gear changes as the hydro tries to cope with a more responsive engine and much more power....you might need to limit the travel of the rear end where it floats on fluid :idea:

I think the MG1100 has torsion bars in the rear end which may be a possibility.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 8:03 am 
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with the japanese markets obessions for making new cars look old they'd go nuts for that minor - it'd get a production run for sure! a minor with airbags and abs - Sir Alec would spin!

lots of bigger and heavier cars managed on hydro bags so I'm sure there is a way you can make it work, did the 1800 utes have some sort of limiting valve to stop the nose pointing skyward with a load? otherwise how about a helper spring or even a shocker mounted alongside the hydro bag?

plenty of spare hydro bags here too if you get stuck :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:00 am 
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rehab1964 - Good to know theres a few around still. I have sent at least 5-6 sets to the wreckers. If only I knew eh?

9YaTaH - THey all have the torsion bar helper springs. I will have to play with these a bit to get it level i think.

drmini - I thought of that but apparently it is a different caliper bolt spacing on the 1100 so metro calipers wont bolt up. Still, a bigger disc is gonna be better in this installation. I will be using 14inch wheels so no clearance issues.

Also I think I will have to track down a set of those competition bump stops mentioned in all the old books. I don't imagine they will be any harder to find than hens teeth?

Cheers

Madmorrie


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:42 pm 
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In Australia the Morris 1100 has torsion bars but the Morris 1300/1500 does not. They have larger bump stops.

I would probably look at running larger bump stops and the torsion bars.

The competition bump stops on Minis are Aeon rubber springs with a bracket to fit onto a Mini, they are available in lots of different sizes for lots of different uses.

Just to remind people how the hydro suspension works, the fluid is not the spring. You cannot compress fluid. The fluid sits between the rubber spring and the suspension arm.

To set the height I would be using full pressure in the bags (205psi) and setting the height by shortening the trumpet under the bag. (or adding washers if it need it)
It may take a bit of trial and error to get it right.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Thanks Morris 1100

Will try to dig up some bump stops. Good article on Autospeed today had a pic of some from a daewoo, so may try some later models too.

It should be easy to get beefier helper springs made up if they were found to be neded. But from memory they work against the hydro unit, thus lowering the car?

I actually had a 22mm sway bar made up years ago which worked well, but I sold it a few months back (DOH!!!) It was made by whiteline through Mitcham Pedders. If anyone was keen we may be able to persuade Whiteline to do a job lot of them.

By the way, check out this guy.
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewt ... ght=#62157
http://www.16vminiclub.com/forums/viewt ... ght=#42544

This guy is doing a vtec conversion into his Austin America.
Awesome reference to me, even if the engine is different.

Cheers

Madmorrie


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:09 pm 
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madmorrie wrote:
It should be easy to get beefier helper springs made up if they were found to be neded. But from memory they work against the hydro unit, thus lowering the car?


I think you have to work out how it works before you start modifying it. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:53 pm 
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Here is a pic from the 1300/1500 manual showing the bigger bump rubber (left of pic)
Image

I was wrong in my earlier post when I said that the 1300/1500 didn't have helper springs. The earler ones had them and the later ones had the big D bump stops.

What does the helper spring do?
It gives a 'rate' to the hydro.
In theory without the springs if you were to push down on the front of the car it would nose down and not come back up. The springs are there to keep the car level. I know that in practice it pulls down on the rear but that is because the engine is pulling down on the front.

Do you need heavier helper springs? Does the front suspension bottom out under brakes? If it was to bottom out you could probably need heavier springs.

Is your replacement engine heavier than the original?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:16 pm 
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Thanks for the explanations, it does make sense when you think about it. I guess that means the front and rear hydro units are the same and the helper springs compensate for there not being and engine in the back.

am probably getting a bit ahead of myself with this stuff, and obivously I'll get it together and see how it is before I start messing with that end too much. Just thinking about it as I will have to rebuild my rear subframe so while its out is the ideal time to do this stuff.

Do you know where to get the radius arm bearings? Do I have to get them sent over from UK? Last time I did it I was able to get them from my local bearing shop, but it has since closed.

I'm more concerned about the front end than the rear at this stage. I sat the mini arms next to the 1100 ones last night and they are closer in size than I remembered. The mini one is about an inch shorter. If I could get a heavy duty adjustable set and just make a new center bit that is a bit longer I should be in business I guess.

Cheers

Madmorrie


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:39 pm 
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madmorrie wrote:
Thanks for the explanations, it does make sense when you think about it. I guess that means the front and rear hydro units are the same and the helper springs compensate for there not being and engine in the back.
Yes, the suspension units are the same.
No! The different ratio of the arms compensate for the weight of the engine. The helper springs stop the car from acting like a see-saw.

madmorrie wrote:
Do you know where to get the radius arm bearings? Do I have to get them sent over from UK? Last time I did it I was able to get them from my local bearing shop, but it has since closed.
I would still try a bearing place or give Mini Kingdom or Karcraft a go.

If you are going to rebuild the rear frame it would be a good idea to make it adjustable. You can make a camber adjuster like a Mini one. It would also be a good idea to adjust the toe settings as well.

I suppose you could work on Mini adjustable arms for the front but I would make slot the inner mount for the bottom arm, fit a thick washer on each side, set the camber and then weld the washers to stop the movement. A lot cheaper. When you want to change the camber you have to grind off the washers and go again (a bit of a pain in the arse but how often do you adjust camber anyway!)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:07 am 
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You're right again, it would be easier to slot the holes while I rebuild them.

I've been looking at rear camber adjsters too. No sure how the camber adjuster would go with the sway bar bolted to the trailing arms? You would be fighting it for the adjustment.

Any idea how far you have to slot the hole for a 1 degree camber change?

Same question for the front also? How far do people have to adjust out their arms to get the setting they want?

Madmorrie


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:24 pm 
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madmorrie wrote:
You're right again, it would be easier to slot the holes while I rebuild them.

I've been looking at rear camber adjsters too. No sure how the camber adjuster would go with the sway bar bolted to the trailing arms? You would be fighting it for the adjustment.
The sway bar is flexible, it already has to bend and twist when one wheel is rising and the other is falling. A degree or two will make little difference.

madmorrie wrote:
Any idea how far you have to slot the hole for a 1 degree camber change?
No idea, but you could sit down and do the maths and get it right first time if you tried hard. It may only be a couple of mm per degree. I will try to work it out.
The front would be quite a few mm (probably between 20 and 50 at a guess)

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 Post subject: Time for an update
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:56 am 
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Since deciding to stay with Hydrolastic things have been moving along nicely.
The 1100 has been wheeled into the shed and stripped of the remaing bits.

Image

The front subframe has come out and been stripped and I have completed the new jig which holds it at a suitable work height and will allow me to cut away the mid section and test fit the motor to get a good position.

Image

Today I went to Toyospares (http://www.toyospares.com.au/) and was able to sift through their collection of driveshafts to turn up this 4AGE 20v equaliser shaft. This should help Minimise torque steer by(hopefully) allowing me to have equal length driveshafts. This is a pic of it inserted into the starlet box.

Image

Finally I also got to Pick a Part today in search of many bits and peices. Trips there are always half parts sourcing/half educational and this time was no different. My old XF falcon had inbuilt camber adjustment and I wanted to see if it was possible to adapt it to the 1100 subframe while I am reengineering it. (Thanks for the suggestion Morris 1100). I think these could be made to work or copied. A nice cheap solution too.

Image

Thats it for now.

Cheers

Madmorrie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Whoa there! Take a look at any old Falcon and you will see the problem with the eccentric bolts and the way that they use them.
Crawl under a Falcon and the eccentric will be sitting in the same position as the one in your photo. If you do a wheel alignment and set the camber it in the right spot and it will stay there till the customer drives out of the shop. First time it hits a bump and it will rotate back to where it was.
You can use an eccentric but you need a way to positively lock it when you have set it. (Not like a Falcon) But you are on the right track. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Yeah, will probably still have to Mig it in place,
But I figured that this is a more positive way of doing it than just slotted holes. Anyway, we'll see how it works.

Madmorrie


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