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PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:24 pm 
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I think the prius has a new kit out or coming out that covers the roof in a solar panel membrane thingy.


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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:05 pm 
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There was a green politician on the telly a couple of years back saying that trucks should have solar panels on the roof to power them instead of diesel engines. She just couldn't understand why they wouldn't do it. "The roof on a semi trailer is huge.." :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:35 am 
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richarde wrote:


I've added to that thread, rather than hydrolysing this thread any further http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=514625#514625

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:56 pm 
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WOW!!! that is awesome very awesome.

With the alternator thing couldnt you rig something up with backwheels. like modify it so you could run a belt up into the boot and run an alternator or more off each wheel, this would work wouldnt it???

Dont know how you could modify the rear though.

This shouldnt put much more strain on the motor, because the motor is not directly running it.


But very well done


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Very, very tidy job there. Many of the EV's you see on the net look like they were just a spare washing machine motor (even though they very, very rarely are) thrown into a rustbucket the owner also had lying around (or bought for $50) - yours looks very professional. :D

I've been doing a bit of reading about this myself lately, although I can't claim any of the practical experience you have Phill! So correct me if I'm wrong here...

Regenerative Braking is generally not done on DC EV's. Generally, Regenerative Braking is something that is done using the vehicle's main motor to recharge the batteries (rather than secondary alternators, etc) with an AC motor setup. Everything I've read indicates it's significantly harder to organize regenerative power on a DC setup. :? The info's probably out there somewhere, I just didn't look hard enough to find it. :oops: :roll:

I'd guess it would probably be achievable to rig up separate charging alternators that were somehow rigged to the controller so that they were only active (i.e. charging, draining kinetic energy) off throttle, but that's extra expense, extra weight, more things to go wrong... There's also the question as to how much you would actually gain. The best alternators they're putting in cars nowadays are what, 110A @ 12V (nominal), maybe a bit more? Convert it to 156V, you're only charging at about 9Amps (before losses), and only in short bursts. Whereas at peak power (for similar short bursts, admittedly) you're drawing up to 700A. :shock: I think you'd want a massive truck alternator! I've been looking at camping electrical stuff - also DC. My Engel Fridge draws 2.5-3A average. I've got a mate with a house fridge off an invertor - it's drawing about 12A @ 12V. 700A at 156V? They are some really, really big numbers. :wink:

Also, alternators are designed to work best within a set rev range. With an IC Engine you're not really charging your battery until you're at 1500rpm, hit peak charge by 2000, and charge can drop off from 3-4000rpm... An alternator would benefit more from the gearbox - especially a (pulley) CVT - than the motor would! Without the right (variable) gearing, the effect of the alternator(s) on braking would vary from being very useful at middle speeds to being useless at low (town) speeds. You'd at least need to gear the alternator to spin faster than road speed - even with their tiny tyres, Mini road wheels are only doing about 1090rpm at 100km/h. You want 4360rpm at 100km/h (I'm keeping the maths simple - and providing useful braking below 100km/h)? That still means you're under the alternator's preferred rev range at 34km/h... You really would want a variable gearbox on it.

So, between the low output of alternators and rev range restrictions compared to the main motor, you can see it's preferable to use the main motor as the charger, which, as mentioned above, isn't the done thing with DC motors. I don't mean to say that a separate alternator/generator/regenerative charger system cannot or should not be done (on a DC system), I'm just saying I can understand why it may not be done!

Phill, I'm also curious - how do you work out your projected range? What's the theory behind it? I'm just wondering - there'd be a few rules of thumb in there, I'd guess? Otherwise it could get pretty complicated - factoring in mass, wind resistance, rolling resistance, percentage of time spent accelerating/decelerating/maintaining a speed, average speed maintained... :? It'll be interesting to see how your projected range and your actual range compare. :)

And what percentage discharged are the batteries at the projected range? With my camping research, I've looked at deep cycle batteries , and all the caravaning/camping guys say not to discharge them below 50%, otherwise you dramatically reduce their service life. And obviously, the further into the range you discharge (drive) them, the lower the performance. I'm guessing that the batteries you're using are something in between a deep cycle and a car battery (given you've quoted both CCA and Amp Hours), so I don't know what the rule is with them. What's all the theory behind this part..?

Finally, is there anyone out there with anything like as quick an EV in Australia? I noticed a guy in WA building a quick MX5, but in my recent browsing of this subject I didn't notice many quick cars. Most were being built purely as money saving transport (things whose only purpose is to get you from A to B), rather than as true alternative (if shorter range) cars (things that you want to drive, that handle, etc). If I were ever to change over, I wouldn't want to sacrifice performance. I'd be like you - biggest engine you can fit! :twisted:

If you don't post again soon, I can understand - if I were you, with the car looking so close to the road, I don't think I'd be able to stay away from the it! :lol: But I'm looking forward to seeing your results. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:53 am 
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Tadhg,
you are spot on with the regen braking, the extra range you may get for the extra effort to set up such a system isn't worth while.

Quote:
Phill, I'm also curious - how do you work out your projected range? What's the theory behind it? I'm just wondering - there'd be a few rules of thumb in there, I'd guess? Otherwise it could get pretty complicated - factoring in mass, wind resistance, rolling resistance, percentage of time spent accelerating/decelerating/maintaining a speed, average speed maintained... It'll be interesting to see how your projected range and your actual range compare.


I worked out the projected range by finding out the how much power is required to push a mini at 100km/h using a coeffiecient of drag .51. I cannot remember the exact formula. The power required was 11kw so if you drove for 1hour at 100km/h you would consume 11kw/h or for every km travelled would require 110w/h of power. it was simply then simply a matter of dividing my battery pack capacity by 110

This is to 100% DOD which I would never do. so the range I want will never be more than 80% DOD of the batteries capacity.

The theory I believe is just a guide. I have put a full floor pan on the mini so its Cd will be significantly less. I just cant wait to get it on the road and find out what its capabitlities really are, in terms of range, speed and acceleration.

I am constucting a website at the moment which will have stacks of info about all this stuff, as soon as its complete ill let everyone now.

Cheers Phill

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:15 am 
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Tadhg,

A lot of work is being done currently on electric motors, and getting their efficiencies up (over 95%), getting their weight down and getting them to handle high amperage loads and heat loads etc.

Likewise, even more research has gone into the batteries - LiPo's at the moment seem to be the flavour of the month, as they are quick to charge, can run a constant amp delivery almost to 0volts (flat), and have higher efficiencies than say Metal Hydrides or AGM wet cells.

Try here for high performance electric vehicles, but note the $$$ involved:
http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php

Cheers,
Tricky

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:51 am 
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Hi Phill,

I think you have done a fantastic job here, and I'd love to see your Mini in action once you get it going. Your Build looks fantastic and seems to be really well engineered.

But of course, aren't we renowned for that in Newcastle :D

Image

http://www.geocities.com/topaussieguide/Page2.htm

We'll have to get together once you're on the road, maybe have a Newcastle Cruise....

Cheers,

Dicko


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:55 pm 
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Thanks for the answers Phill. I could see before I posted that you knew what was going on. I was just wondering what you used in the calcs... And where you got the info from. Looking forward to the website! :D

Tricky, I know that Tesla's out there, I was more meaning conversions. Most of the conversions I've seen out there are the equivalent of converting a Mini to run off a Kei class 660cc engine - great for economy and easy to drive, but no faster than a stock Mini. I want the equivalent of the 1.6 Mivec you're doing for Sam - then turbo'd! :twisted: I'm (one of undoubtedly many people) watching that thread and your threads too. :) But I'm talking old cars with conversions, like Mini performance engine conversions, as opposed to going out and buying a new Lotus Elise (which the Tesla was based on). :wink:
Edited because I had the wrong whippersnapper from across town listed as the owner of the Mivec conversion - hey, they joined within a short while of each other! Maybe I'm just getting old and forgetting things...


Last edited by Tadhg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:16 am 
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cooper69 wrote:
Lithium Ion would be very good but the upfront expense is to great for my budget, I looked into them a little while ago and I think it was around $12,000 for thunder sky lithium ion batteries pack which i think weighed about 80kg and had about 20kw/h which would give the mini about a 200km range.


Interesting that you mention Thunder Sky batteries, as I just came across this a few days ago:

http://www.electric-echo.com/blog/

Doesn't appear favourable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:41 am 
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cooper69 wrote:
I am constucting a website at the moment which will have stacks of info about all this stuff, as soon as its complete ill let everyone now.

Cheers Phill


i'm exceptionally keen to see some detailed information...

Get ya skates on mate... ;)

also.... could you give us the info on where you sourced all this from?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:50 pm 
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bump..



keep this active....

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:56 pm 
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bump

any progress?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:35 pm 
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Not to much progress as I have just moved from newcastle to bathurst, I will have some time to get some stuff done hopefully in the next few weeks.

Talking about batteries I have come across a company called eestor in usa, and they are now claiming a energy storage device which can hold about 50kw/h in a capacitor which weighs about 150kg from memory and will cost about $2500 to produce.
If true this will revolutionise the automotive industry. 50kw/h would allow me to drive my mini for about 700-800km before charging, and they claim charging can be done in 5 min.

Zenn motor company have exclusive rights to use these batteries in vehicles under 1400kg and any conversions.

My website is up and running but I havent put any info about the mini on it yet. Let me know what you think???
www.killawatt-electric-car-conversions.com
I will have info about the mini on there very soon

Cheers Phill

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:09 pm 
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Groovy!

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