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5-main, alloy block, 20v, 1435cc
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Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject:  5-main, alloy block, 20v, 1435cc
Ok,,, so who`s keen on an alloy block , 5-main crank, 20valve alloy cross-flow cyl head , 1435cc, fitted on top of a mini g/box, Bolt straight in with no body or frame mods ???

I`v sorted a combination & about to start making the basics to start the first one for myself

if you`re interested then let me know

But i warn you,,, money talks & bullsh!t walks,,, this thing aint gonna be cheap
Author:  mickmini [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
I am interested in a couple years time :lol:

Are you planning to strengthen the gearbox to handle the power as part of the package?

cheers
michael
Author:  adel99gt [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
What kind of motor etc are we talking about here Matt?
Author:  d1ck0 [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sounds like a plan. How long do we have to save?

Cheers,

Dicko
Author:  EST-071 [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am interested, do you have any more details.
Cheers Pete
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
this is a 20v motor bike cyl head & barrel assembly fitted ontop of (CNC machined) billett alloy lower "half-block" with which the new custom 5-main crank is clamped into via 5-main caps, with forged pistons & rods.

this lower "Half-block" assembly is machined to take the bike barrel assy on top of it, & also fit the mini box under it, we bore & sleave the "Pair" of block halves as one unit, elongating the bore to suit the longer stroke crank.

water supply via elec water pump

oil supply is external oil pump driven off the front crank pulley/balancer, via a fitting into the small blanking plate on the back side of the mini box

there is a small mod to one corner of the gearbox casing needed for clearance reasons

there are a few other bits & bobs to buy & sort... like the timing chain & the lower timing chain cover & seal assembly ,,, the front pulley/balancer,,, small primary case extension piece,,, oil pump,,, water pump,,, along with the various associated motor bike bits such as the cyl head & barrel assy,,, another bike`s con rods & main caps & obviously the cost of the sleaving etc.

Like i said,,, this is not a cheap conversion,,,, However, i`ve done some serious homework & i`ve already spent a fortune sorting this thing out & i am now quite confident that this will make SERIOUS power while being extremely strong, Very reliable, super smooth... & quite a fair bit lighter (approx half) than a mini engine.

I`m making at least one for myself (possibly another one later with bigger bore & longer stroke-- 1560cc), but i put it to you guys (if you`re interested) because more quantity is simply more cost effective

Please don`t ask me how much it costs ... yet... as (If you can imagine) i initially tried to squeeze all this inside a mini block but it just wasn`t going to fit,,, no matter how hard i tried (& believe me i tried,,, a few times) so , hence the reason for the seperate alloy block with 5 mains became the better option.

We are Machining the first big chunk of alloy right now & when i`m done with all that then i have to sort the rest of fiddly bits,,, I have had prices estimated for the crankshaft ranging from $3500 up to $6500, so it will be quite some time away from the "working engine" stage,,, but it is happening,,, that`s why i`ve now opened my big gob about it :-)

Once the first engine is a runner , then i`ll be testing it hard & fast for a year or so, & if all is well ,,,then we have options to make the bigger version if we feel the need,

however, i have this funny feeling that we won`t need to go any bigger :-)

reliable 9000 rpms , approx 200hp + in N/A form, on pump fuel, half the weight of the mini long motor,,,, sitting approx 75mm lower,,, no body mods ,,, no frame mods.

just bolt it in.
Author:  sausage27 [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
The motorbike head wouldn't happen to be off a yamaha r1 would it?
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
maybe

:-)
Author:  mickmini [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
me likey :D

I'm doing some research into carbon fibre construction, so maybe I can whip up a CF flywheel housing and gearbox to go with your alloy block :lol:

cheers
michael
Author:  meeni [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
dont take this the wrong way and this is a question not a stab but why would you bother?.. it seems an extreme expense, alot of engineering and alot of time designing for the sake of using a mini gearbox.. id rather engineer a subframe and have more power, plus a reliable 5 or 6 speed gearbox..

discussion is fun!
Author:  Kennomini [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your mad matt, will their be a proof of concept on display at the Muster :?:
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
200hp out of a 50kg engine? Thats freaking insane.

Got to be tempting to chuck it in a buggy north south and make a 4wd monster.
Author:  mickmini [ Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
meeni wrote:
why would you bother?..


because we can is the answer. there is always a thin line between genius and insanity, and it is only the perspective of the observer to say which side we are standing on :lol:
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:44 am ]
Post subject: 
meeni wrote:
dont take this the wrong way and this is a question not a stab but why would you bother?.. it seems an extreme expense, alot of engineering and alot of time designing for the sake of using a mini gearbox.. id rather engineer a subframe and have more power, plus a reliable 5 or 6 speed gearbox..

discussion is fun!


No problem Meeni,,, the fact is that there really is an enormous amount of work , time, money effort etc needed on all the many modifications, parts, design, fabricating etc for the average Jap engine conversion,,, obviously

It really is quite a major opperation no matter what engine you choose,,, & as can be seen by the numerous transplants that are still in the process of being built/produced,,, some of them have taken years & years & years to get running & others are still not finished... the ones that are just thrown together are obviously not as good as the ones that take their time & spend more money etc,,, & most of the "thrown together" ones have regretted doing so

but either way... they`re all very heavy,,,, very time consuming,,,, very costly,,, Very complicated,,, & to be honest i`ve never been happy with any of them,,, they simply don`t make the mini a very well "Balanced" car anymore... it`s all good & well having 500hp turbo charged V-tec or what-ever..., but i`d rather have less hp & have my car handle , turn, stop & accelerate far better because the "Package" is far better balanced

Small capacity multi-valve Bike engines have been producing over 200hp for years & years now,,, but they`re not a very torquey engine,,, the Hyabusa being the torquey-est & the R1 being the lightest & most compact ... i`m just adding some capacity to the lightest & most compact one to get some decent torque,,, it`s quite simple really

& besides that,,, 2nd hand R1`s are everywhere & cheap-as-chips to buy

the world is now flooded with myriads of CNC machining equipment that makes production time & costs of billet items much easier & cheaper to make than ever before so i`m just grabbing the chance while i can

If people like Manx, KAD, Jack Knight, Scat, Falconer & H1 & (& many many others) didn`t take the path they did,,, if F1 & Moto-GP didn`t evolve through all this CNC machining age/era,,, new designs & improved engineering practices ,,, new ideas,,, well we wouldn`t have hybrid cars, we wouldn`t have i-pods,,, we wouldn`t have the internet, we wouldn`t have fuel injection,,,, heck if none of us thought up anything new then we wouldn`t have the sewage plumbed out of our homes & we`d still be living in the dark

yes,,, this new engine is a fair bit of work,,, yes this new engine is going to cost a bucket-load,,, yes it`s not for everyone,,,, so what :-) i`m going to have one for myself,,, That`s what i`m doing it for

However--> if someone else wants one,,, & maybe another fella is rich enough & wants to be just as silly as me,,, & maybe then a couple more people wake up & smell the roses,,, then it`ll all end up being a bit more cost effective for everyone right?

& as for the gear-box goes,,, never fear,,, there is a bigger picture being painted by a number of people/companies that will improve that part of the equation before long so i`m not worried about it at this stage... the mini box isn`t such a bad thing ,,, & certainly isn`t as bad as "Some" people say.... if they`re built well & the right bits are used, then there really isn`t an issue with 180hp-ish over extended periods ,,, & as you should all well know,,,, we are not always driving our 200hp minis at full noise """"All-THE-TIME""",,, mostly we are just puttering around ,,,going to work & back... & to the shops,,,, & maybe the occasional run down the coast or to mini meetings right??? who uses 200hp All-The-Time?????

Just because "Some" people have worn-out gearboxes , or have been "Thrown-Together" by some dork who only "THINKS" he knows what he`s doing &/or they are to tight / stingey to fix them properly,,, doesn`t mean that "Every" mini gearbox is like theirs :-)

you can go out & buy a V8 Hyabusa engine right now, complete with trans-axle assy & everything,,, (if you were filthy rich that is) they`re all ready for over 400hp & BIG BAGS of torque in N/A form.... imagine twin turbos on that thing yeah??? :-) .... but,,, funny enough ,,, it doesn`t fit into a STD round nosed mini body---> does it???

My design is quite simple really,,, there`s not that much to do once the 2 main big bits are made,,, the homework is done,,, the alloy is being machined,,, i`ll have a crank made after that & we`ll go on from there

i`m sure there will be road-blocks &/or Mountains to climb (isn`t there always?) but,,, then sometimes we need those road-blocks as a break to recover & re-group,,,

& the view from the top of those mountains is just breath-taking isn`t it ???

:-)

Just picture this for a moment---> an absolutely stunningly beautifully prepared ,,,, totally & absolutely Stock-Standard looking , clean as a whistle mini 850,,, parked outside a coffee shop somewhere (doesn`t matter where really) absolutely nothing changed from factory except for maybe one of those early wood-grain dash fitted,,, ok???

just cute as a button right???,,, tell me right now who of you wouldn`t stop to admire such a thing yeah???








sitting in the engine bay is a nice & quiet, smooth, pump fuel, 200hp 20v, alloy, 5-main







& whenever you want , you can just throw the std 850 power-unit back in there with no body or frame mods at all, just remove the piggy-back wiring loom & fuel swirl tank/pump etc & it`s back to absolutely totally std within a days work

now,,, would that be such a terrible thing??????????

:-)
Author:  d1ck0 [ Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
:shock: :shock: :shock: :o :o :o :D :D :D 8) 8) 8)

Words arent enough. Go for it I say.

Dicko
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