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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:40 am 
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848cc
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Sounds awesome.
How would you go about registering a beast like this, since motorcycle engines are a no-no? Bolt it in and keep it hush hush?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:01 pm 
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1360cc
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He wouldn't be using a bike engine: just some of the parts off one.
The rest is made or modified from cars.
It's not breaking any rules, just pushing the limits a bit, right?
8)


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:13 pm 
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1275cc
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bike engines arent a no no anyway.. not according to the engineers ive spoken to about it..

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:50 pm 
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If you really think about it, its not that far off of what was done a long time ago. Putting a ford engine ontop of the mini gearbox. So it's not like Matt's idea is all that crazy.

I think it's a good thing, keep up the work Matt


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:14 pm 
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1275cc
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PeeTee wrote:
Sounds awesome.
How would you go about registering a beast like this, since motorcycle engines are a no-no? Bolt it in and keep it hush hush?


Two things usually make it harder to use a bike engine in a conversion. The first is relatively easy to overcome - reverse gear is not fitted to bikes!

The second, depends on which state you are in, and is to meet the emissions laws. Bikes do not have the same emission levels to meet as cars under ADRs. In some states, the law is that you have to meet the emissions laws of the year of the engine that you put in - for cars - no matter that the engine originally had to meet. So you need to do a full emissions test for say 2000 car ADR laws if you use a 2000 R1 engine in your Mini. The R1 engine was never built to meet those emissions laws, so you have engineer it to do so.

cheers
michael

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:48 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
mickmini wrote:
So you need to do a full emissions test for say 2000 car ADR laws if you use a 2000 R1 engine in your Mini. The R1 engine was never built to meet those emissions laws, so you have engineer it to do so.

cheers
michael


My R1 weighs about 140 kg I think..it uses 5.4 litres per 100 kilometers... :P And there is definitely no catalytic convertor either..but thats what you get for 140 HP from a 998cc engine...

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:10 pm 
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1360cc
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Something I've often wondered, we see people always rattling on about bike engine conversions and see it overseas because of the silly power output you can get.
But, in the long run of reality, do the engines produce enough torque and are the gearboxes strong enough to handle carting a car around instead of a bike?

There's a lot more drive train load with two fat tyres and a diff, brakes, driveshafts, etc than with one narrow tyre.

:?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:58 pm 
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1275cc
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From what I can tell;
The mini gear box has reverse so that don't matter.
The engine is not a motorcycle engine, it has parts of one but is not a bike engine. So emissions may be in a big grey area.
Engine number may be an issue.
Torque will be solved by the longer stroke from the custom crank shaft.

Sounds like a good option for a high powered, reliable power plant. I want to see it in a road car :D .

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Kennomini wrote:
Engine number may be an issue.


how come? the manufacturer of the engine stamps a number on it..... and I'd say in this case that the manufacturer would stamp anything you wanted....

hey Matt, in case I win tattslotto and can buy one, can I reserve H0TS3X069 as my engine number?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:04 pm 
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1275cc
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Mick wrote:
mickmini wrote:
So you need to do a full emissions test for say 2000 car ADR laws if you use a 2000 R1 engine in your Mini. The R1 engine was never built to meet those emissions laws, so you have engineer it to do so.

cheers
michael


My R1 weighs about 140 kg I think..it uses 5.4 litres per 100 kilometers... :P And there is definitely no catalytic convertor either..but thats what you get for 140 HP from a 998cc engine...


It is not the fuel economy that is measured, it is the instantaneous measurement of the contents of the exhaust gas. No catalytic converter means that the NOx emissions at least will be too high to meet ADRs, plus probably CO and HCs. Nothing that tuning can't resolve, but as soon as you add the cat, you are not going to have a 140hp engine anymore. Your fuel economy is an average of all types of loads and is more indicative of the weight the engine has to haul around than the emissions.

If Matt is making "new" engines rather than adding an adapter for mating a R1 block to Mini gearbox, then yes new engine number would be required. But if you give a new engine number for a "new" engine, you will have to meet the latest emissions ADRs. This is now Euro4 levels. Better to stick to the idea of retaining the R1 block identity IMHO.

That was the beauty of retaining the A-series block - do anything else to it and you only have to meet the emissions laws applicable for the year of the car. Alloy 7/8 ports, turbo twinky, whatever it's basically free emissions :wink:

I am sure that Matt has thought all this through as to how it works with QLD rego. Everything else seems to be covered.

cheers
michael

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:06 am 
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Bimmer Twinky
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Mick wrote:
mickmini wrote:
So you need to do a full emissions test for say 2000 car ADR laws if you use a 2000 R1 engine in your Mini. The R1 engine was never built to meet those emissions laws, so you have engineer it to do so.

cheers
michael


My R1 weighs about 140 kg I think..it uses 5.4 litres per 100 kilometers... :P And there is definitely no catalytic convertor either..but thats what you get for 140 HP from a 998cc engine...


hey Mick, i think you`ll find that your bike weighs more like 180kgs

& i believe you will find a cat convertor inside the start/mouth of the muffler
Edit--> (((If you have the std original muffler that is)))

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

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Last edited by TheMiniMan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:08 am 
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mini_mad_matt wrote:
If you really think about it, its not that far off of what was done a long time ago. Putting a ford engine ontop of the mini gearbox. So it's not like Matt's idea is all that crazy.

I think it's a good thing, keep up the work Matt


hee hee,,, You`re "sort-of" right :-)

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


Last edited by TheMiniMan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:16 am 
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Bimmer Twinky
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Harley wrote:
Something I've often wondered, we see people always rattling on about bike engine conversions and see it overseas because of the silly power output you can get.
But, in the long run of reality, do the engines produce enough torque and are the gearboxes strong enough to handle carting a car around instead of a bike?

There's a lot more drive train load with two fat tyres and a diff, brakes, driveshafts, etc than with one narrow tyre.

:?


Harley,,, kenno answered it pretty well all up actually

this engine will have way more torque because of the extra stroke & the extra capacity

the mini box is fine & has reverse gear & soon enough there will be even more options for the internals & also the strength of the case, so before long we should have a "VERY STRONG" mini box available to bolt my engine onto, but for now we`re just banging it onto a std mini case with the std issue s/c c/r gear kit--- for now

& i honestly can`t see a problem with a 7-speed (plus reverse) gear-kit going inside my own mini case at a later date :-)

rego legalities will depend on the interpretations of the rules by the dpt of tpt approved engineer who approves it...if it needs "Some" part of the original mini block attached to it ,,,well then that`s not so hard is it???

:-)

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:43 am 
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I`m very happy to see such wonderful disscussions about all this (& Davids 6-speed motor-bike box thread too) its all good & we all really do need to listen & learn from it all,,, it really is good to see both the positives & the negatives,,, & all in such a reasonable & understanding, intelligent, comfortable & quiet manor... keep it up guys,, , it`s great stuff.

But please don`t forget,,, i`m doing this first & foremost as an exercise in design & machining

secondly---> this will be For-Myself,,, For one of My Own minis,,, & i`ll be testing it for quite a while before anyone else gets one--> """IF""" anyone else gets one

Thirdly---> i`m sure there will be some major hurdles,,, because as much as we "THINK" we have covered all bases,,, well obviously there will be some "hick-ups" along the way & i`m prepared to wear whatever bruises to my ego & my wallet.

Kenno,,, i`d like to be able to say that i`ll have the "Mock-Up" ready for the muster, but sadly i don`t believe that will happen,,, i have the Blue Turbo Twinky Moke comming back from it`s owner shortly for some more "Improvements" as he is keen to run it at the Power-Cruise at Willowbank at the end of this month

i also have almost finished another Turbo Twinky Moke engine for Ian (from the moke forum) so i`m sure i`ll be buried deep in the middle of fitting that lot up to his moke

I`m also going back to my old Boarding school for the 30 year reunion in early september

so i can`t see me having enough time (between surfing & racing) to have the "Mock-Up" donk ready for the Muster-- sorry

Just to show you guys another project we have been playing with as a pre-cursor to this,,, here`s a pic of a billett alloy single over-head cam carrier we`ve been playing with

Image

So,,, we`re getting pretty damn serious with all this machining stuff hey? Practise makes perfect right???

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:08 pm 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:41 am
Posts: 384
Location: Adelaide
Looks brilliant. I wanted to do a conversion but not destroy my classic Mini so sold up. Couldn't cut into my 850!
If this gets finished may be a reason to find another one, good luck with the progress, should be interesting to say the least.

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