Ausmini
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:19 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:11 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:55 pm
Posts: 28
Hey there all.

Rowan is about to undergo a serious heart transplant!

Dropping in a Low compression G13B turbo, with G16B/Swift sport gearbox.

I am expecting it to output a decent 200-250HP, given the turbo I'll be using.

As far as Brakes and Coilovers go; I'm under the impression it will have front disk brakes installed, and front coilovers installed.

Is it a major project to install rear coilovers as well?

Structurally, what work needs to be done? I will be installing a half cage; which should minimize the chassis twisting.

Dan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:13 pm 
Offline
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:50 pm
Posts: 4112
Location: barossa valley sa
Hey Dan welcome to the gti club.
New to minis I assume ?

Is the car being built for the road or the track?

Your expecting some big numbers, what supporting mods are you doing, I know a n/a g13b is 100 odd hp standard so going for 250 seems alot! I'm interested to know what your doing!

As far as rear coilovers haves look on a few of the performance mini sites overseas, it has all been done before.

You mention Chassie twisting, minis run subframes , which technically isn't a Chassie. With that kind of power a half cage isn't going to do a whole lot to link in the front and rear subframes together! Especially if its for a race car I would be going a bit further and linking the whole lot together.

That's my 2 cents :)

_________________
-jamie-
1963morris 850
1965 solid side van
1994 rover racecar


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:57 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Brisbane
Those numbers do sound a tad high... Not impossible though, You'll probably need a set of vented disc brakes. Not sure if most engineers specify the amount of pistons they need but vented is usually a must.
Wouldnt need coil overs to get it engineered, all depends on the subframe modifications your doing. Engineers usually like to see the origional suspension geometry
(Sorry for any spelling mistakes as I've just gonme back to using a pc so no auto corrent)

_________________
If you want more inches, stroke it
Life's a garden.... Dig It!
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20746


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:18 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:55 pm
Posts: 28
Well - Basically it's getting a G13B that was dynoed at 200HP @ 18 PSI using a baby TD04 Turbo. I will be using a much bigger turbo, (GT2876RS), so I think this engine CAN achieve 250HP with flying colours. As far as reliability is concerned - It will be a ticking timebomb.

If I can however make a reliable 180-200HP on anywhere from 14-16 PSI of boost, I will be a happy chappy. I highly doubt i'll be able to keep even that much HP down on the road!

As for the gearbox, the G13B gearboxes are terrible little things - ( Believe it or not, will actually changing the box on my GTi tomorrow morning) - I have opted for the 1600CC G16B Sedan Swift bellhousing- with the new style Swift Sport gearset inside. Makes for a much stronger robust box, which will hopefully take all of the power.

It will be a road going car - with the occasional track day thrown in!



Jason @ GTItec will be doing this conversion.

As far as engineering goes; I believe the front brakes need to be changed to disk brakes to pass.

The coilovers are more of a "performance" type modification. I don't want the handling to be the weakest link! (The reason i'm hooked on my mini is the way it steers!)

I'm trying to do a no-expense spared type conversion, where every modification will support every other one; which is why I asked the question!


The forces applied on this seam welded peanut shell of a car will be quite extreme, and i don't want anything to break! -

Mad MK1, you think I should use a full cage; and somehow link the engine subframe to the cage through the firewall?



Also yes, I'm new to minis. This is my first one; I've had it for about 6 months now, and it's been off the road for the last 4; getting some minor bodywork done by myself while trying to keep the kilometres low....!!


Dan.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:24 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:31 am
Posts: 3183
Location: Burpengary, Queensland - Home of Tricky Performance Engineering
if Jason @ GTitec is doing the conversion, shouldnt he be providing good counsel on what is required to not only get it engineered, but also to make it safe??

Have you consulted him?? :wink:

_________________
"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:18 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 4682
Location: sunbury victoria
That's what I was thinking.. No need to ask everyone on here and get 20 different answers talk to the guy doing the conversion..

200 bhp is pretty easy to get if your building the motor to take it.. There's some 300+ bhp swift engines floating around.

Hope the g16 gearbox is better then the gti one!

_________________
Potato


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:01 pm 
Offline
998cc
998cc

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:46 pm
Posts: 526
Location: S.A
Firstly of you're worrying about the engine twisting the shell (chassis to me sounds like a separate frame rail) think about the loading, it's not longitudinal so the prop won't try to twist the shell on its axis, but it will rock back and forth. Considered a custom under-body brace?

Rear coil overs require modifying the original suspension mounts to take the larger diameter coil spring, not really hard to do.

If you're going to all this trouble why not consider a space frame? Look at the Honda guys on 16vminis.

200-250 is pretty achievable, not reliable though if you don't build it right.

There's a user called runbag at teamswift who mounted a g13b longitudinally in a mk1 swift, he was aiming for 400hp or over. Didn't quite get there though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:20 am 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Brisbane
If you like the way it corners now, why change it?

_________________
If you want more inches, stroke it
Life's a garden.... Dig It!
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20746


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:23 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 5370
Location: Yandina,Sunshine Coast,QLD
This all sort of goes in a circle so here we go....
If you want more strength in the mini body start with seam welding the subframes, seeing as the front subframe will be heavily modified your probably only going to be left with the suspension towers and rear webbing section but they are the main sections to seam weld anyway. The rear sub frame can be welded or if your in a modifying mood and know a good engineer throw the std rear sub frame in the back of your shed and get, make or mod a std sub frame into a "rear beam axle". Save weight and gives more room under the rear of the car and it opens up the area for your rear coil over mods.
Now with the rear coil overs you have to cut out the original shock absorber towers and replace them with larger diameter tube sections that fit around the coil overs, just remember to do this with the rear trailing arms near by so you can double check you have clearance around the coil over at full suspension compression and fully unloaded. New tops on the suspension towers/shock towers (they are now the same thing) need to be made and seeing as these new towers will hold all the weight and force of the rear half of the car it all has to be made out of decent steel not just 2 1/2" exhaust tubing :roll: . Once the new towers are fitted a brace bar between the tops of the towers wouldn't hurt for more strength, but that means you can not use a std mini fuel tank.....but seeing as you (may) now have a rear beam axle you can use some of that extra space to add a new alloy drop tank in the boot floor.
Now seeing as you want a roll cage you could go for a six point cage and tie that into the rear suspension towers which will provide a huge heap of rigidity joining the rear suspension loads to the entire floor pan, B and A pillars and the fire wall (the car now is basically a space frame body now) and this will also delete the rear seat, weather or not you can legally run with out a rear seat "firewall" section (I'm talking about the rear parcel shelf and rear seat back).
And now with the six point cage were back to the front of the car where the cage could be extended through the firewall and join up with the new front subframe which would have to be built with this in mind.
It all depends on what you want the car to look like in the end, if you want mad body strength you'll have to go with a space frame race car inspired build but if you want it to look like a normal road car you'll have to forget about a six point roll cage and therefore a super strong and ridged body.

_________________
Respect mine and I'll respect yours.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 8:37 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 5370
Location: Yandina,Sunshine Coast,QLD
Also don't forget their are plenty of minis out there and even in Australia with 160, 200 and more bhp at the wheels and they don't have cages or anything extra like that and they are not being ripped apart from the engines power.
You don't need a roll cage in a non A series powered mini but if you want to have it for crash safety a four point cage like you mentioned would help and it will provide some structural rigidity but not as much as a six point cage.

_________________
Respect mine and I'll respect yours.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:39 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:55 pm
Posts: 28
I do believe coils on the front will increase the ride quality, theres no denying this technology exceeds limitations of donuts.

Yes, the G16 Box I am buying was built for just under $4000. It really should handle the power of the roaring 1300CC!

As for the limitations of the G13B; there have been many G13B's built exceeding 300HP. As far as reliability goes, im not sure how long these engines lasted.

I don't think 180-200HP at the wheels on 14-16PSI from a 400HP rated turbo, is too much to ask; considering the internals the engine has.



-Thanks for the replies Kennomini, your points are extremely valid.

It's not the straight forces; or the cornering forces i'm THAT concerned about; it's more heavy braking while turning. Obviously, with a much more powerful engine over stock; I'll be slowing up the little beast from much higher speeds than originally intended... I will definitely be considering an underbody brace, possibly directly connected to a 4 point cage of sorts. I will speak to an engineer and see what he decides.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:38 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 1461
Location: Brisbane
I was'nt doubting anything, I'm all for what ever any one wants to build. I was just saying is all... I for one am looking forward to seeing a 200hp plus mini roaming aound

_________________
If you want more inches, stroke it
Life's a garden.... Dig It!
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20746


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: power
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:32 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 6:32 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Gosford
the red cluby best was 122 hpatw on 10psi add 20% loss with trans that 146.4 hp at motor with stock motor with tdo4 turbo
thx
jason


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: red clubby
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:46 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:17 am
Posts: 68
Location: PERTH
the red clubby use to be mine

_________________
Fried Ricer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:58 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:09 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Darwin, Oz
200hp is probably nice to have - Got 160 at the moment & so haven't bothered with VTEC & a decent tune, but you better be prepared for the change in gearing. Revving the... err.... chest puppies?! out of it to do highway speeds gets annoying after a while. I'm at 4,200 rpm at 100 k's & while it's a laugh to be in the power-band for overtaking, it's not a great sound when you're stuck there. Being able to use first gear would also be a novelty. I start in 2nd, & am in 5th by 60 k's. I don't race.... ever.
It's taken me ages just to get hold of a final drive conversion to bring the revs down to realistic levels (Not installed yet) so do your homework & see what's available for your engine before you finish doing the "Install engine, remove, install, remove" merry-go-round.
BTW - I'll probably only bother with VTEC + tune once I get the final drive installed. Once I do I'll let you know what 200Hp feels like, but I'm pretty sure it feels like 160 - It feels like riding the clutch to prevent wheelspin in any low gear, & even just turning at a T-intersection, & yes I have an LSD. I actually sweat with fear if I pull up at the lights next to a police car..... Have to be soooooo f.......ing careful.......... Geeennnnntttllllyyyy does iiiiiiiittttttttt..........

PS - I wish you the very best of good luck with your build! :)

_________________
1.8L Sunshine - Legal, legit & lovinit


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

© 2016 Ausmini. All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.