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 Post subject: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:35 am 
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Hey guys,
So I was trawling the net the other day, looking at kits for engine conversions. I had a look at the minitec kit on minimania.com
I was looking at the different packages they had and so forth and came across the following kit.
http://www.minimania.com/part/MT532000/ ... Engine-Kit
It included everything including the motor!
The funny business began when I saw the price. It had been discounted down from USD11,200 to $1,120.00
I did the thing that most sane people would do and ordered one.
I got an email from them once US trading hours began to advise that a mistake was made and that if I still wanted the kit I can have it but it will be USD$11,200.00 as per the normal price.
The old saying if it looks to good it probably is has rung true again.


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:42 am 
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I would have ordered one as well, I was waiting for the vetech hayabussa kit but at 11.5K pounds its a little pricey.http://www.vetech.co.uk/hayabusa/pricing.asp

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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:42 pm 
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That kit looks awesome Hobson. We can dream!
The subframe doesn't look like much has changed.


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:56 pm 
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Hey Floss
Are you thinking of a VTEC into the black beast?

That would be awesome,suit it to a tee

PS good to see your still kicking lol
Cheers Hallsey


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:27 pm 
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Hey Hallsey,
I was when that kit was only 1000 bucks!
It's a bit out of my budget at the moment.
Honestly, I think the cg13 would be perfect for what I want.
The black beast would have been the recipient.
How are your racey beasties going?
DC


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Location: Armidale, NSW
floss wrote:
Honestly, I think the cg13 would be perfect for what I want.


What is it you want?

This post on The Mini Forum talks a little about the merits of a CG13 conversion.

BTW I just had the maiden voyage in my CG13DE mini :D (with 10" wheels 1st gear wasn't so useful :P needs a wheel alignment (and an exhaust) etc so didn't push it)

Good to see the CG13 getting some interest, there was a while there when everybody's response was "why would you? just put a 4EFTE in"... :roll:

Funny how Matt doing them has made it more acceptable...

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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:43 pm 
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Hi, I couldn't see your build thread. Link me!

From what i have read, they are resilient, reliable, has a good output, 5 speed box, you can pick them up fairly cheaply and body mods are less than other conversions.

I have been reading about the cg13 conversion on 16vminiclub for a while now. Not sure what you mean about it being "more acceptable" .Peoples acceptance isn't usually high on my list of importance. More people talking about something will usually do that. I remember following barricades 4efte conversion when he first did it and i bet people said that to him as well.. well the same thing as in you should just do a vtec.


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:43 pm 
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Location: Armidale, NSW
floss wrote:
Hi, I couldn't see your build thread. Link me!

My build (not much in there and it hasn't been updated in a while): [url="http://www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums/topic/253043-spot-the-micra-mini/"]Spot the mini[/url]

floss wrote:
From what i have read, they are resilient, reliable, has a good output, 5 speed box, you can pick them up fairly cheaply and body mods are less than other conversions.


Yeah, they respond very well to very simple mods, just extractors and some easy inlet mods make quite a difference.
The best way I heard it put was the CG13DE was "the engine the mini should have had" ie if BMC etc had continued to invest adequately into the mini's engine what would they have come up with? IMO the SPI / MPI were hampered by their not having enough to completely redesign the engine.
The engine and gearbox are also supposed to be just over 1/2 the weight of the A series and gearbox @ about 80kg (Not sure I haven't weighed it but on the lowest setting on my HiLos I'm still waiting for the suspension to come down :lol: )
This light(not me BTW, it's frank on the K11 forums :D ):
Image

I have kept both inner wings but did have to cut and move one out slightly on the driver's side because I didn't want to cut off the harmonic balancer. No other body mods required.

floss wrote:
I have been reading about the cg13 conversion on 16vminiclub for a while now.

There's more of these conversions on the mini forum including the one that probably started it all (by bigchief) there's a lot of variety and some are better than others...

floss wrote:
Not sure what you mean about it being "more acceptable" .

When the CG13DE was originally raised as a possible engine conversion, there were a lot people who looked at a standard engine hp on wiki or where ever and asked quite reasonably in some ways asked why put in an engine that has as much as a 1275 A series..?

What they didn't get perhaps is that the CG was effectively detuned by nissan(CG stands for Clean and Green apparently) and how easily it is to improve, the work required to get it in the mini like extractors and a new inlet manifold (needed if you don't cut the firewall) can release much of the restriction. (The whole exhaust flow is pushed through a section about 1 cm x 2cm in the factory exhaust manifold)
for example:
https://www.micra.org.uk/threads/my-1-3-k11-si-over-104-bhp.45025/

floss wrote:
Peoples acceptance isn't usually high on my list of importance. More people talking about something will usually do that. I remember following barricades 4efte conversion when he first did it and i bet people said that to him as well.. well the same thing as in you should just do a vtec.

13second mini was the first EFTE that I knew, there was another in Canberra after that ministar? minstar?

I'd didn't really care either, which is why I did it anyway, there are more criteria for an engine conversion than just horsepower.
what would a twin cam, EFI, 16 valve, 8 port, cross flow head, 5 bearing crank, aluminium block, with a 5 speed gearbox, and a sump with no cogs in it cost if it were an A series?
I don't really want a turbo either.
That said I wanted an engine conversion that was more compatible with the mini rather than overpowering it. That took the good traits and made them better.

I'll stop rambling... :oops:

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A Deluxe(CG13DE), 2 Clubbies(998 and 1275) and 2 Morris 1100Ss


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:54 am 
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1098cc
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Location: Armidale, NSW
Spot is currently running in ratrod spec (will look rough until engineering and rego are complete and it's been driven for a while iron out any kinks)
But here's an engine bay photo:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Roads need more corners
A Deluxe(CG13DE), 2 Clubbies(998 and 1275) and 2 Morris 1100Ss


Last edited by fuzzy-hair-man on Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:11 am 
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Hey fuzz,
Thanks for the info.
The picture didn't work. Would love to see your bay though.
I have been speaking to wreckers and so forth and have found a place thats pretty reasonable.
Trying to work out a list of what I want from them.
I need to do some more reading but looks like
Engine and box
Wiring loom (engine side)
Nats
Ecu
Rad fan
Gear lever
Alt
Starter



Did your engine come from a Cube or from a Micra (K11) do they differ much?
Did you keep the nats?
Did you keep the nissan ECU or go bike carb and megasquirt?


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:34 am 
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Ah, forums don't seem to like linking to google photos... :cry:

Engine and box definately :P
wiring loom (I found it useful to have the whole thing, well except for very back, as I went through teasing out everything engine related)
NATS (Never came out on our k11 micras, ours ie Aussie micras are all dizzy prefacelift, you also won't find any 1ltr micras, none of the smaller gearboxes, but that's no big deal).
ECU (yeah, I'm getting Nistune on mine which turns the factory ECU into the equivalent to an aftermarket fully tuneable ECU for cheap!)
Rad Fan (I didn't use the fan or radiator, a Spal 9" fits beautifully inside between the rad and shroud the factory fan was useful only for the connector)
Gear lever and connecting rods (yep, I also used the front middle engine/torsion mount to make a mount on the gearbox for one of the 2 selector rods)
Altenator (I used a suzuki swift alt, it's much smaller so fits better and there's still not heaps of room around it)
What are you putting this in roundnose or clubby? others have got the alt on the front and it looks nicer but I couldn't find room a clubby opens up options of a front mounted altenator and a front mount radiator IMO
Starter (definately)

The bit of the loom that's most important is the engine loom but there's 3, the passenger's side loom is also reasonably important I think it's the one with the engine bay fuse box which I used just about as is.. there's some red connectors on the battery clamp that are useful too..
I used the micra fuel pump but that's not required it could be any pump, the fuel pump is triggered from the ECU so the fuel pump relay and wiring is useful a lot of the relays are switched on earth so if you have the factory wiring it prevents getting confused and I can look at a micra wiring diagram and make sense of the colours.

I had the whole car so if you can and you have the space that's what I'd do just means you can decide what to keep etc.

95? K11 micra
No NATS in it.
I'm not sure re the Cube engines the wiki on the Cube puts production at dates that include the facelift stuff so it may have NATS, coilpacks, and CGA3DE 1.4 engine but you'd need to check, the fact that the CG13DE doesn't increase capacity make it easier in some ways for engineering...

As above Nissan ECU and I'm gonna get Nistune put on it...
http://www.nistune.com/equipment-products-type5.php

It's so easy and cheap to upgrade the throttle body and injectors I can't resist, EFI reliability and efficientcy is one of the major reasons I'm doing the conversion so definately keeping it EFI, the fact the engine started with no cranking 5 years or more after last starting and starts easy every time and idles smoothly just has me sold.

The only other option I'd be looking at is EFI motorbike throttle bodies but unless you use socks to filter (hot air at the back of the engine) the air flow still has to go through a similar path to be filtered so I'm not sure what gains there are...? There are bigger and probably better flowing throttle bodies than the CG13 or GA15 but as I said before the GA15 (45 to 50mm or 23.5% increase in area) is an easy upgrade allowing me to go back to the CG13 if it didn't work...

This was my first attempt at wiring anything this complex so doing bike EFI throttle bodies seemed a bit beyond me (they appeared as an option after I started).
L_jones on the mini forum is doing some at the moment on megasquirt? there's also a supercharger build on MSC and 16V mini 8)
I can't remember a RPM limit for the stock bottom end but I have almost 10,000 in my head (there's no way mine's go'in near that) there's a rev limit at 7,600rpm? in the ECU anyway they make good screamers I'm told...

BTW I weighed the spare engine and gearbox and it came in at 130kg which seemed a bit disappointing but it has on it:
exhaust mani and Cat converter
inlet manifold and throttle body
Alternator
engine oil
some gearbox oil
starter
piping and engine loom

if I took all that off I figure it might come down a bit say 100 - 110kg? I don't know what sort of trim the A series is in when it weighs 150kg...

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A Deluxe(CG13DE), 2 Clubbies(998 and 1275) and 2 Morris 1100Ss


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 10:23 am
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Location: Armidale, NSW
Just did some research re the cube the Z10 Cube uses a CG13DE and CGA3DE but a video which shows the compliance plate shows a transmission number that's different so.... :?:
<edit>More looking and they seem to be all autos or CVTs so that'll be the transmission number... not sure why I assumed it was manual :roll:
The cube did have a 4wd... :idea: :D

The later Cubes had the CR14 which is a larger engine AFAIK

I'm not sure if the Z10 Cubes came to Australia

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Roads need more corners
A Deluxe(CG13DE), 2 Clubbies(998 and 1275) and 2 Morris 1100Ss


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:17 am 
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Hey Fuzz,
Sorry, I replied to your messages the other day but it doesn't seem to appear.
I didn't say much....
I agree about the earlier cube not being sold in AU.
I found a guy that will sell me all the bits I need from a 1.3 litre Micra for about 750AUD. Is that ok?
He said engine and gearbox would be 450 but with all the ancillaries it would be more.

Saving my splurge money up now for this!

My mini is a Clubman van. thread below is really old.
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47232
David


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:23 am 
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Buy the whole car if you can - cause there will always be a bit where you go "I wish I had that".


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 Post subject: Re: b16A funny business
PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:54 am 
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Hey Harley,
I did think of doing that but we have 3 cars between two of us at the moment and they only JUST fit at our place. I might ask how much and then see if I can stash it at a mates out of sight.
If it was a car that actually had any value it would be worth parting out but, I can't imagine a Micra has a huge parts scene.
How are your builds?


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