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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:42 pm 
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My Kemppi has an attachment available that MIG welds a stud to the panel. You then attach slide hammer etc.

It has another useful attachment that uses a copper coated carbon rod for heat shrinking. It clamps to the torch's contact tip or tip holder.
I made this from brass ( a copy of the Kemppi one).
Principle will work with any MIG welder.:P

Image

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


Last edited by drmini in aust on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:20 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:45 pm 
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I know the one, migmag do one as well called the "spotcar 9000" I think.
It also has a spot weld attachment.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Yes mine does spot & stitch too. Pity the budget MIGs don't have it. :cry:

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:35 pm 
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I would buy you a beer PK!

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:58 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are funny :)

Ok Harry, it looks like micowen, GT mowog and the Doc beat me to it :lol:

You can skin this cat a few ways. Using a slide hammer is a very popular mehtod and works probably the best. I would certainly advise you to weld (how ever you like to, Braze, MIG etc) rather than use a self tapper because they tend to pull up only in small localised areas. I prefer to braze nuts on personally, but only because they are easy and clean to get off afterwards, just heat it up and they drop off. But do what you are happy doing...

The next method, if you don't want to buy a slide hammer,,, is a little bit more difficult. There is a tool called a "Spoon" (guess what.. it looks like a big spoon :) ) which you can poke and manipulate up in between the inner and outer skin and use for a dolly.... alterantively make your own long dolly for the job,, I've done it plenty of times with the hitch bar's for toe balls... or someone else on here has even used a block of wood for a dolly...Sometimes it takes a bit of artistic license :lol:
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Everyone else, Harry, goodie, crisonic, Morris1100, Rodney, Minikit, headgasket,,,,, you guys are most welcome... :)
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Hey Mick,, why don't you put up a post explaining how to (and where to) use Dog hair (I normally call it something else :mrgreen: )?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:39 am 
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Location: Killingworth Victoria
TAFE North Sydney had a machine that spot welded a washer on end onto the dent. You then used a slide hammer with a hook to pull the dent out. It also spot welded a stud. For this you used a slide hammer with a head a bit like a drill chuck to grab the stud. I just remember the huge cost to buy it . It was out of the questionfor us mere restorers

Doc you mention an attachment that fits your Kempi. Is that something similar and will it fit other migs? Sounds better than self tappers and brazing that I use at the present.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Actually it's a standard Binzel part, not peculiar to the Kemppi.

part # 193 in this pic-
it's a spotweld tip with a V grooved bit on the side to locate the stud whilst you weld it.
Image

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:58 pm 
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PK (and other experts who have contributed to this thread) - you've given me incentive to try a bit of basic panel beating on my car. Many thanks for making the effort to impart your knowledge for we novices.

A question on tools if I may.

What is included in a good basic set of hammers and dolly's for a beginner and what brand should I buy (and what to avoid)? I always try to buy good quality automotive tools (old Sidchrome spanners/sockets, for example) but I'm guessing I don't need to go to the expense of trade quality given the relatively limited use they will get. I plan to try to knock out a few dents in the doors and side panels where access from the rear is possible.

Will an inexpensive set get me started, like the one's on eBay and elsewhere, or is the hammer head likely to fly off without warning on these cheapies?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/21240-7PC-AUTO-B ... 27ae42c6b1

I'm not so much trying to save money in doing it myself but I like the satisfaction when I try something new and achieve reasonable results.


Last edited by winabbey on Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:04 pm 
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this is good stuff, we definately need it in the how to section

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:10 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
PK and others,
Stone chips and other small chips in 2k finishes, is there a good technique to touching these up and finishing so as they cannot be seen again?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:20 pm 
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winabbey wrote:
A question on tools if I may.

What is included in a good basic set of hammers and dolly's for a beginner and what brand should I buy (and what to avoid)? I always try to buy good quality automotive tools (old Sidchrome spanners/sockets, for example) but I'm guessing I don't need to go to the expense of trade quality given the relatively limited use they will get. I plan to try to knock out a few dents in the doors and side panels where access from the rear is possible.

Will an inexpensive set get me started, like the one's on eBay and elsewhere, or is the hammer head likely to fly off without warning on these cheapies?


Hi winabbey,

To answer your question regarding brands,, well there were many many brands available from Europe and the UK for a long time.. but with recent trends over the last 15-20 years moving away from hand forming and "Panel Beating" and moving towards "Panel Replacement", a lot of these companies have gone under or are now non existant.. The only one that has survived is Sykes Pickavant, and they are still pretty good but even their quality isn't what it was.

What I would suggest is look for good tools rather than brand name tools.

Here are some of mine and what to look for and what not to look for...

The photo below is what is called a "Planishing Hammer". It is the hammer you will probably use the most. It has a round face with a flat profile.

Image

Planishing hammer side on, note the flat face

Image

If you look at the photo below, you will see 2 Planishing hammers side by side. Try and find one with a face the size of a 50cent piece, it will make a world of difference, they are much quicker to work with and the stretch the panel less. All hammers will stretch, even "shrinking hammers" stretch, they just don't stretch as much.

The hammer on the right is a decesnt one, the one on the left is an el cheapo.

Image

Below is a photo of a Utility or Universal Dolly. This like the planishing hammer is a tool that you will use a lot. If you are only going to buy 1 hammer and 1 dolly, make it a planishing hamer and a Uni dolly. The universal dolly gets its name because it has a Flat face, a Curved face, and a highly curved face, so you can us it for a lot.

Image

Uni dolly from another angle

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and another angle

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Here is a photo of a Pick, you don't use these much (or I don't anyway), because of the shape of its face, it is an extreme stretching hammer. You would only ever use this with a dolly normally.

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Here is a photo of a Return Curve, or Reverse Curve Hammer. It has two ends with different faces, one is curved one way, one is curved the other. You would only use this type of hammer inside a curved panel.

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Close up

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This is antother useful dolly, its called a Toe Dolly. It is really good for hot shrinking. It has a flat face, a gently curved face and a sharpe point.

Image

anohter angle

Image

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This is a photo of a Curved or Comma dolly. From side on it looks like a Comma,

Image

another angle,,, see why they call it a comma dolly :)

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If you can either buy these as a kit or individually you will be able to do most tasks. One tip with hammers, if you are buying hammers with wood handles (make sure they are Hickory) try getting ones with SATIN finish, varnished finishes can give you blisters. Also, better quality hammers have longer handles. Longer handles are better becuase you can hit harder without swinging much harder (they have a better leverage action).. I know that sounds a bit sooky but remember that you will be hitting a panel at least 180 times a minute, so you want to be comfortable or you'll cop RSI.

Image

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There are a lot more hammers and tools available, but what I have put it is the ones that you are likely to use the most.
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Winabbey, I've had a look at that ebay kit, it looks ok.. I don't think it will come apart on you. You can get better stuff,, but if you are not doing it full time, that kit ""should"" serve you just fine...

Does that help?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Mick wrote:
PK and others,
Stone chips and other small chips in 2k finishes, is there a good technique to touching these up and finishing so as they cannot be seen again?


Hi Mick,

The touch up method I posted, where you bleed the colour over the repair and then clear the WHOLE panel is the same one you use for 2k as well. I would suggest sanding out the chip first so that you are just painting over it and leaving it obvious.

I work mainly in Restorations, so I very very very rarely like once a year use 2K. Micowen works with 2k daily doing truck repairs, so he may know another method.. but that one works just fine.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Phat Kat wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Hey Mick,, why don't you put up a post explaining how to (and where to) use Dog hair (I normally call it something else :mrgreen: )?


For the seventh time now, let me try to get this down before my computer crashes again!
Kahglass (fibreglass nikki), is extremely hard to use, it "drags" when applying it, and sanding it is very hard as it sets like rock.
Not for the faint hearted or impatient person!
For my liking it goes like this:
* Very hard to use (as described above)
* Mixed, and applied the same as normal nikki.
* waterproof (not like nikki which is porous)
* Can be laid much thicker than nikki
* not susceptible to cracking due to vibration, or hot/cold extremes like nikki is


In the end you will still need to lay a very thin layer of nikki over the kahglass to cover any imperfections such as pinholes or airbubbles.
I prefer the use of PPG galvaplast A656 for this job as it is a soft/fine nikki and comes up a treat!
If you can do all of this you have a very strong and sturdy, waterproof repair that is as smooth as a babies bum!
Most panel beaters will beat you down for mentioning it, but what you do at home is your show!
Please correct me if I am wrong with anything I have written.
Afterall, I am no "supreme expert" in any of this!
Sorry for keeping it short, my computer doesnt like me at the moment!

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mooo, I'm a pig!


Last edited by micowen on Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
cheers ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:43 pm 
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I can see one mistake here mick...

micowen wrote:
I am no "supreme expert" in any of this!



You modest little bastard :lol:


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