G'day everyone,

On the weekend I picked up a Saas racing seat for my car. It has a custom built subframe which mounts it up to the standard seat mounts (ie it retains those lovely wing nuts). I'm trying to find out the legality of using this seat. My insurance company is happy with it, as long as it is legal. If it isn't they'll no doubt void my insurance and I don't want that (not that I could afford the excess anyway).

In a recent issue of Motor magazine it stated that aftermarket seats can be fitted if "the locking/reclining mechanism, replacement base frame and mounting bolts continue to meet the Australian Design Rules." However, my car is a 1965 model and is prior to the introduction of ADR compliance. Therefore, would it be logical to say then that even though the subframe is not ADR approved it still continues to meet the ADRs for my car (given there are none)?

Anto.

That's the tack I'm taking if I'm ever pinged.. mine is a 1970 model, the Cobra seat mounts the same way as yours.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

From my research today, it appears that the age of the car is irrelevant. The bloke at the RTA told me that the seat is fine as long as the seat is ADR compliant, and the subframe as well. If they are, and it bolts to the standard seat mounts, then it is legal and doesn't need engineering. (The seat also has to allow access to the rear. Mine doesn't really, unless you are a midget, but I don't carry passengers in the rear and i might change the rego to a 2 seater). He said that it doesn't matter if the car is built prior to ADR compliance, the seat must still comply with Australian Standards. Seems stupid to me, but my silent protest would most likely result in a defect notice.

So my options are either get an engineer to inspect the current subframe ($$) and then get it taken over the pits at the RTA (not licensed inspection station), or (my preferred option) buy a Cobra seat subframe and mount my Saas seat to it (99% sure in this case the bolt pattern is the same). Thus the subframe will comply with Australian Standards (or more likely UK standards, but I don't think it really matters).

My current lying/cheating method is to stick the ADR compliance sticker off the bottom of the seat onto the subframe and pretend they both are compliant. Unfortunately the subframe 'legs' at the back are made of L-section steel and it is obviously not a 'factory' job.

I just found a summary of the ADRs on the Vic Roads web site. Here is the rule ADR 3 with regards to Seat Anchorages:

Hinged or folding seats must be self-locking with the lock release within reach of the seat occupant or any other person seated immediately behind the seat.

As those of you with pre 1970 cars will know, this is impossible! My car simply doesn't have a lock mechanism as it is built before this ADR. So I don't know what the guy I talked to at the RTA is on about, but it is physically impossible for my car to meet ADR 3. Unless he meant something different by Australian Standards. Looking through the list of ADRs, my car doesn't comply with any of them, basically.

Anto.

This is from the Vic Roads web site, Vehicle Standards Information No 19:

Replacement Seats

Seats supplied as an option by the vehicle manufacturer may be fitted. An Engineers report is not required for this type of seat replacement provided;

* the seat is one supplied by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle and is actually replacing an existing seat.
* the original seat mountings are used, and
* appropriate seat belts are fitted.

In cases where the replacement seat is not one offered as an option by the vehicle manufacturer and the vehicle was manufactured on or after 1 January 1969 an Engineer's report showing continued compliance with the applicable ADRs will be required.

For vehicles manufactured before 1969 the seat anchorages must be of at least equivalent strength to the original anchorages. An engineer should be consulted if there is any doubt regarding the strength of the anchorage or any part of the seat installation.

Now is there an equivelant statement for the ACT? I for one have no doubt that the seat anchorages are strong enough so I guess that means I don't have to engineer it.

Lock mechanism (bar on floor and tilting seat back with release) was not used on any Mini until at least late 1971, whan Clubbie seats came in... as far as I know..

So why 1/1/69 is mentioned in the Vic regs, I don't know.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Kevin, my green sprint mini is a December 1970 build with Clubman doors, it had the locking mechanism/floor bar on the seats. Steve

Kevin, my green sprint mini is a December 1970 build with Clubman doors, it had the locking mechanism/floor bar on the seats. Steve

Kevin, my green sprint mini is a December 1970 build with Clubman doors, it had the locking mechanism/floor bar on the seats. Steve

Steve, what seats? Clubbie type?
I suspected the last Mini K's & S's etc with Clubbie doors had these, wasn't sure when they came in, I thought 1971. Mine is 3/70... doesn't have them.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

I think that the engineer is saying is that you are changing the seat to a new one - i.e. a late model seat. So you will probably have to go with the updated rules.

I have a '86 engine in my mini, so I will have to comply with the Australian Design Rules (ADR) of that era, even if my car is built in '71.

1990 model seat means you have to comply to the rules of 1990.

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Money is like horsepower, you can never have too much
GTi powered, with a GT25 turbo.

I am running a pair of Sparco Sprint seats which are FIA approved. They are mounted on a Cobra frame designed for the Mini. These seats believe it or not are not ADR approved!!! To keep the engineer happy though, where the frame mounted to the original mounts on the floor, I had to use high tensile bolts. And at the rear had to have the frame bolted to the floor with a 6mm steel backing plate on the other side (underneath the floorpan).

This prevents the seats from being pivoted forward, meaning no rear passengers. Not a problem I run 3 point harnesses, SAAS ones with no ADR, but have FIA approval. The engineer did mention though if the car was to be registered as a 2 seater the rear seat would need to be removed. Yeah right!!!! To bad.

So basically the seats/frames/harnesses/seating capacity is all illegal on my car as none of it has ADR compliance. It does all have FIA approval though. Crazy that this gear can be used in the harsh enviroment of a race car, but not in a streetcar. Hard to believe that SAAS an Ozy company can make a product that isnt ADR approved!!!!

I got it all registered a bit on the dodgy side, but stuff em its safer then what it was when it came out in 1967.

Oh yeah the insurance companies can go jam it to, as no one will touch me cause the car is to modified. Havnt tried Shannons or Vigil though. Stuff em!!!!

I think you will notice that race car drivers ofthen change parts like belts and seats on a regular basis - they have a year date on them and they wont pass scrutineering if too old.
This wont be checked on a road car.

You will also find that the std belts and seat of ANY car manafacturer has done alot of testing on their own products The aftermarket stuff out there does not have to have this done, or it will put the price of the gear they are trying to sell up too high.

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Money is like horsepower, you can never have too much
GTi powered, with a GT25 turbo.

Well today I am attempting to find out if the ACT rules are the same as the Vic ones I quoted. If they are, then I'll just put the seat in with the subframe. It doesn't say I need an engineers certificate, just that if there is any doubt as to the strength of the anchorage point (which there's not) then I should consult an engineer. Kevin, you're an engineer aren't you? I've consulted you therefore its legal

Technically I should rip the rear seat out and register it as a 2 seater because of the limited access, but I wont bother. The seats I have now (fixed back Clubby seats with headrest) don't allow adequate rear access unless you take the head rest off and they are original Mini seats, albeit from a later model.

Methinks you worry too much about `legality'.

My bro has a Mazda 323 (RWD) rally car, SAAS seats, half cage, harnesses, fat wheels, all the rally gear, no back seat, blah blah- he's had it for years and never been pulled up, or had a problem at NSW rego time.

<edit> and it's still registered as a 4 seater..

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.