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Fast, Reliable But Not So Cheap - 1380 BMW K1200 EFI
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=96193		 Page 9 of 11
Author:  jpodge [ Sat Oct 10, 2020 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
timmy201 wrote:
One tip regarding timing - if you've got a modern car with an OBD2 port, you can get a dongle and connect to your phone via an app. On mine I can check the timing vs RPM & load. It gives you a good idea of where to start

Mine goes up over 50 degrees of timing under part throttle coasting


Thanks Timmy - what I will need to do in this case as timing is advance is listen for knock. I'm yet to find out if this engine is one where the timing will be torque limited or knock limited. As advancing timing for a steady RPM normally sees a bell curve shaped torque increase where knock will occur somewhere along that line. Usually knock starts to occur before the max torque occurs but there are circumstances where the torque will start to decline as timing continues to advance prior to knock occurring.

Audio knock detection equipment makes this process a bit easier - so am hoping to reach out to some resident dynos soon to see if they can give me some time on the dyno. Either way, until then I've more or less mimicked the SC ignition map but have not exceeded 25". This lead to a noticeable increase in power over the 15" I had it capped at on the last drive.

Today I took to the back industrial streets to road tune the fuel map. I managed to bed down the 1500-4000rpm vs TPS areas of the fuel map and all went very well. I'm amazed at the smooth power this engine produces and the low down torque and sound from the individual pod filters is absolutely unreal. I'm very excited to see this engine come along as the tune is improved!
Author:  jpodge [ Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
Questions for any twin cam experts out there - do these engines experience knock before maximum torque when tuning ignition? Or does the torque start decreasing before knock?
Author:  dalmeny [ Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
jpodge wrote:
Questions for any twin cam experts out there - do these engines experience knock before maximum torque when tuning ignition? Or does the torque start decreasing before knock?


Can't help you Joe I have NFI.
Author:  jpodge [ Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
dalmeny wrote:
jpodge wrote:
Questions for any twin cam experts out there - do these engines experience knock before maximum torque when tuning ignition? Or does the torque start decreasing before knock?


Can't help you Joe I have NFI.


Thanks anyway Steve. Have you had a chance to get your car back to the tuner after the TPS wiring mod?

I've spent the last couple of weeks driving the car a few days a week looking for issues. I've more or less stemmed the last of the oil leaks which required a bit more attention to detail from the oil return block and a new set of cam gear seals - I don't think they were installed perfectly level. Not the worst job to fix but there was a fair few steps. Radiator out, fan off, cam cover off, timing belt off, front plate off, repair and repeat in reverse with a careful application of gasket goo. After learning that jacking the engine up on the passenger side makes getting the radiator out EZPZ, it wasn't a difficult job at all.

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With the oil leaks as stemmed as much you can reasonably expect from a mini, it's slowly turning into quite a reliable car. Cold starts are pretty good and I have every faith that when I turn the key that it'll start - that concept has definitely made it a lot more stress free driving to and from work the last few days.

I've had to adjust the clutch a few more times than I expected. When driving the clutch pedal is getting closer and closer to the floor. Easy enough to adjust but I'm starting to question whether this is the brand new clutch assembly bedding in, or if there's something wrong. While the clutch master cylinder is pretty old, I'm questioning the proximity of the braided clutch hose to the exhaust. I've bled the system a few times (and later replaced the fluid because it was pretty gross) and I noticed a few bubbles each time I bled it. Now with new and clean fluid, I'm questioning whether that is still happening. Thoughts from the floor please - clutch slave cylinder and hose pcitured below pretty close to the exhaust (gets much hotter than a standard A series I think). Do you reckon this could be boiling the fluid inside the hose?

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Lastly, I've booked the car in for a dyno tune to optimise the ignition timing and just to check everything I have already done. Booked in for 17th Dec at PBE Dynotech. Still a few more weeks to sort out niggling issues like this but safe to say I'm pretty excited to see what potential is there to be unlocked.

I've really enjoyed driving the car in the last few weeks. It sounds phenomenal and the power is a huge step up from the 998 that I am used to. In retrospect I should have fitted a different diff, as it's revving at about 4200RPM at 100kmh.

Next steps - upsize the breather hoses from 1/2" to 5/8" hoses as I'm seeing a big of oil on the flywheel (new primary gear and crackshaft).
Author:  timmy201 [ Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
Good to hear you’re progressing with it! Any more videos of it running yet?
Author:  jpodge [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
timmy201 wrote:
Good to hear you’re progressing with it! Any more videos of it running yet?



Thanks Timmy - I'll get some more videos of it running shortly and put them up on YouTube.

Before I do that though, I've got to replace one of the rear oil drain hoses. I was noticing that after the car was parked for a while after driving, there would be about 5-10 drops worth of oil underneath the diff. I found that one of the rear oil drain hoses from the head had twisted after I had reinstalled it recently and it was resting on the exhaust pipe so was slightly burnt. After removing the hose to replace it, I noticed that the bottom female fitting of the hose was cracked. I suspect that this was my own fault from over torqueing. Turns out that the burnt section of the pipe wasn't causing a leak at all - aeroflow hoses are very good - it was just the cracked fitting.

Times like this make me glad of the way that it was designed to allow easy maintenance to remove and replace the oil lines!
Author:  timmy201 [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
I assume you’d have a bit more room down the back of the engine too, with the intake manifold on the front now!
Author:  jpodge [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
timmy201 wrote:
I assume you’d have a bit more room down the back of the engine too, with the intake manifold on the front now!


It may have also meant cutting a 11/16 spanner in half but you gotta do what you gotta do to make the job easy, right?
Author:  timmy201 [ Sun Nov 29, 2020 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
Now you’ve got 2 spanners for the price of one
Author:  jpodge [ Mon Dec 14, 2020 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
timmy201 wrote:
Good to hear you’re progressing with it! Any more videos of it running yet?


You asked for it Timmy - here it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtUzB6GSaRs

A few days out from dyno day I have been sorting out niggling issues. I had a slipping clutch which I suspected was a result of too much crank case pressure. Upgraded the size of the breather hoses to 5/8" and I also found a leak into the flywheel housing from one of the breather catch can bolts. Easy fix.

Running and driving well for a car that has only been road tuned. Looking forward to seeing what Wednesday brings.

Yes the fuel pump is loud and it's running a tad rich :P
Author:  jpodge [ Fri Dec 18, 2020 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
Okay not so fast everyone!

The dyno day yesterday had it's ups and downs. The ups part is that the car is running much better and feels a lot stronger than it did before. The down is that a crank trigger reference error was coming up at around 5500 rpm and the engine wouldn't rev past this point. I never really noticed this in the last few weeks and thought perhaps it was a result of my tuning efforts but seems now that it's a hard fault.
Up until 5500 rpm when it started to cut out and splutter it was making just under 50hp - i think there's still some left in the tank so to speak.

I'm now trying to troubleshoot the trigger error. I've double checked the distance of the trigger wheel to the sensor and it is within spec - less than 1mm. I've double checked that the sensor is over the center of the trigger teeth. The sensor isn't being fouled by anything at high RPM and looks solid despite being somewhat close to the fan belt. I'm going to look into the wiring as from what i remember - this connection was soldered instead of being crimped. If that doesn't fix it I'll look to replace the sensor.

I also noticed that when it does start to splutter - a fair amount of blue smoke comes out the back. Unsure if this is causation or consequential of the spluttering or just coincidental. 20w50 oil.
Author:  simon k [ Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
you're using proper shielded wire and it's earthed at one end only?

jpodge wrote:
I've double checked that the sensor is over the center of the trigger teeth


maybe try pushing the sensor all the way over to the left so that it's as far away as possible from the flat disc part of the trigger wheel
Author:  jpodge [ Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
I've found some time over the last few days to trouble shoot the crank trigger error which ended my dyno day a little early a few months back.

First off I re-pinned the bosch connector and added a dab of solder to the crimp to ensure that there is good continuity between the ecu and the sensor.

I also replaced the crank trigger sensor for a new one. Combining these two seemed to fix the problem to a significant degree and the test drive saw it rev to about 7000rpm but even then I'm not sure if it experienced valve bounce or if it got the trigger error again, but either way I didn't rev it beyond that point.

Pretty happy with that, and to narrow down what the potential issue was, I put the old crank position sensor back on to isolate the problem, and the issue came back straight away - not revving beyond about 4800rpm. So at very least the old crank position sensor was causing part of the problem - probably due to the small relief I filed off on one edge to clear the fan belt (about 1mm of plastic).

I put the new sensor back on and went for another lap, although this time it didn't want to go over about 6500rpm. Each time that it seems to reach its rev limit (for whatever reason), a noticeable amount of white smoke is blown out the exhaust. Like I mentioned above, I'm still not 100% sure if all the smoke is indicating an issue that could also be causing the engine to not rev like it should, instead of it just being a crank sensor issue.

I pulled the new crank position sensor back off and it looks like the fan belt is still fouling the crank position sensor just slightly. To fix this, I'll have to shorten the bracket that holds the sensor in place. A bit of a pain - radiator back out, fan off and crank pulley off - adjust bracket and reassemble.

I had a fleeting thought that perhaps I've filled the engine with too much oil which is causing these issues. Besides, I have used a different dipstick to not foul the intake manifolds.....

From here;
- move crank position sensor over by about 1.5mm to not foul the fan belt.
- test drive with the ECU connected to a computer to check the faults.
Author:  murty [ Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
I have the same MED pulley and also noticed that the fan belt is extremely close to the sensor. I also trimmed a bit of plastic away from the sensor to clear, and I hope I don't run into the same issue at high RPM (still yet to be tuned).
I wish I had gotten the other version of the MED pulley (referred to as the flat version) to position the sensor further away from the belt (seems like a much better design).

Paul.
Author:  jpodge [ Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cheap, Fast, Reliable - None of the above... yet!
murty wrote:
I have the same MED pulley and also noticed that the fan belt is extremely close to the sensor. I also trimmed a bit of plastic away from the sensor to clear, and I hope I don't run into the same issue at high RPM (still yet to be tuned).
I wish I had gotten the other version of the MED pulley (referred to as the flat version) to position the sensor further away from the belt (seems like a much better design).

Paul.


G'day Paul, I think it will be okay. Looking back through Steve's post, I noticed that he has the same pulley and crank position sensor set up quite close to the sensor - can see it here - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=77313&start=165

I don't think he has had any issues with it? Correct me if I'm wrong there though, Steve!

Here is a picture of how close mine sits to the fan belt. It's not overly close and I still hold doubts as to whether the belt is contacting the sensor as the belt shows some wear on the inside edge, but also some wear on the outside edge so maybe it's just flicking fan belt dust on to the sensor making it LOOK like it's fouling it..... perhaps the wear on the belt is a result of pulleys that are slightly out of line.

Image

In other news I took it for another drive this afternoon. Safe to say that I am going to revisit the engine breathers as the amount of blue smoke is indicative of leaking oil past valve stem seals. I don't think these seals were replaced when I had the head work done, however I'll add a breather between the two cam pulleys (1/2" barb) and see how that goes. I don't know why I didn't do this from the beginning. I guess I massively underestimated the amount of oil that goes to the head and assumed that 4 oil drains from the head would also each partly act as breathers. It would explain why smoke is only really noticeable at high revs when more oil is flowing and more head pressure is experienced.
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