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Rover single point injection system, retro fit?
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=97382
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Author:  peterb [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

just use a swirl pot and return hose to it

Author:  simon k [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
Simon, How did you overcome the RH tank overfilling?


(it was the LH tank that was overfilling)

I added an extra fitting in to the bottom of the LH tank and connected the RH tank only to that - so the fuel pump was taking and returning fuel to the LH tank, and the RH tank was (still is) just equalising the level in the LH tank rather than having fuel drawn out of it.

Author:  IndigoBlueCooperS [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

simon k wrote:
IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
Simon, How did you overcome the RH tank overfilling?


(it was the LH tank that was overfilling)

I added an extra fitting in to the bottom of the LH tank and connected the RH tank only to that - so the fuel pump was taking and returning fuel to the LH tank, and the RH tank was (still is) just equalising the level in the LH tank rather than having fuel drawn out of it.


Extra fitting sounds like a plan, as I don't want to take up boot space with a swirl pot.

Author:  IndigoBlueCooperS [ Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

What in line fuel pumps are people using for high pressure - 3.5 bar?

Author:  KLAS [ Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
What in line fuel pumps are people using for high pressure - 3.5 bar?

the SPi setup uses 1 bar system pressure. most pumps for that have 2.5 bar maximum pressure.

the easiest way to fit a simple EFi to a carb'ed car i found is to fit an old GM (Opel over here) SPi setup. it uses a dizzy with Hall effect sensor. i mated the upper of the GM dizzy and the lower of the Mini dizzy successfully.
advantages of that system: the loom is selfcontained so you don't have to change the loom of the Mini. you only lenghten the wires to make it look good and connect power and ignition switch.
diagnostic software is easily available or you can uses blink codes. and it has a MIL lamp output, something Rover failed to fit.
it's old, proven, and well documented. and the ECU is smaller than the Rover one.
disadvantages: you have to build a dizzy, but that's quite easy. and you don't have to use a differend flywheel.
it uses a vehicle speed sensor, but that can be made to fit. or maybe it can be turned off somehow.
it forgets what it learned if batterie power is disconnected for some time. but it relearnes quite quick. and i had a 1400ccm ECU running a 998ccm engine that maybe increased the problem, overfueling, during warmup.

Author:  Lindsay_Palmer [ Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

KLAS wrote:
IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
What in line fuel pumps are people using for high pressure - 3.5 bar?

the SPi setup uses 1 bar system pressure. most pumps for that have 2.5 bar maximum pressure.

the easiest way to fit a simple EFi to a carb'ed car i found is to fit an old GM (Opel over here) SPi setup. it uses a dizzy with Hall effect sensor. i mated the upper of the GM dizzy and the lower of the Mini dizzy successfully.
advantages of that system: the loom is selfcontained so you don't have to change the loom of the Mini. you only lenghten the wires to make it look good and connect power and ignition switch.
diagnostic software is easily available or you can uses blink codes. and it has a MIL lamp output, something Rover failed to fit.
it's old, proven, and well documented. and the ECU is smaller than the Rover one.
disadvantages: you have to build a dizzy, but that's quite easy. and you don't have to use a differend flywheel.
it uses a vehicle speed sensor, but that can be made to fit. or maybe it can be turned off somehow.
it forgets what it learned if batterie power is disconnected for some time. but it relearnes quite quick. and i had a 1400ccm ECU running a 998ccm engine that maybe increased the problem, overfueling, during warmup.


Klas, did this system use a air flow meter? What Opel vehicle did this system come off? Sounds very interesting. Any photos for this system and more details would be great. Did you use the Opel throttle body and injectors.

Author:  simon k [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
What in line fuel pumps are people using for high pressure - 3.5 bar?


I was using a bosh pump - similar to this - https://www.sparesbox.com.au/part/bosch ... gJrOfD_BwE

Author:  peterb [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

Quote:
Extra fitting sounds like a plan, as I don't want to take up boot space with a swirl pot.

Having a swirl pot helps prevent low fuel level problems and also ca make pumps last longer. These pumps hate restrictions on intake.

Author:  simon k [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

peterb wrote:
Quote:
Extra fitting sounds like a plan, as I don't want to take up boot space with a swirl pot.


Having a swirl pot helps prevent low fuel level problems and also ca make pumps last longer. These pumps hate restrictions on intake.


not gospel, just my experience... but I didn't have an issue with it - our tanks are tall rather than wide and flat - I figure fuel doesn't have anywhere to go to make starvation a problem. Even when running nearly empty, the fuel pickup is right at the lowest point of the tank. The mini fuel tank basically ticks all the boxes to be a swirl pot in itself. A van or moke would be a different story

Likewise "they" say you shouldn't let your fuel return spray into the top of the tank - "they" say it aerates the fuel causing xyz problem... never had an issue with it.

Maybe if I'd been able to get past the problems I had with injecting before the supercharger and with hot intake issues I'd have had to deal with problems at the tank, but it did 25-30,000-odd km as it was... I'll inject it again if/when I get a 7 port or BMW head on it

KLAS wrote:
the easiest way to fit a simple EFi to a carb'ed car i found is to fit an old GM (Opel over here) SPi setup. it uses a dizzy with Hall effect sensor. i mated the upper of the GM dizzy and the lower of the Mini dizzy successfully.


the EFI system I *think* you're referring to is from a Holden Camira over here. I have a write-up from somewhere

Author:  KLAS [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
Klas, did this system use a air flow meter? What Opel vehicle did this system come off? Sounds very interesting. Any photos for this system and more details would be great. Did you use the Opel throttle body and injectors.

no, it uses an external MAP sensor, can be fitted close to the throttle body, avoiding such long, easy to fail tubing Rover used

very poor quality video from back then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKcGib_PcoE

Image
i won't fit it this way as i guess it would cook the idle control down left
will look if i can find some more pics

sadly i only know how the cars were called over here, Opel Corsa and Opel Kadett, made around 1990. but i think it was the basic throttle body injection of it's day

Author:  Lindsay_Palmer [ Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

KLAS wrote:
Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
Klas, did this system use a air flow meter? What Opel vehicle did this system come off? Sounds very interesting. Any photos for this system and more details would be great. Did you use the Opel throttle body and injectors.

no, it uses an external MAP sensor, can be fitted close to the throttle body, avoiding such long, easy to fail tubing Rover used

very poor quality video from back then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKcGib_PcoE

Image
i won't fit it this way as i guess it would cook the idle control down left
will look if i can find some more pics

sadly i only know how the cars were called over here, Opel Corsa and Opel Kadett, made around 1990. but i think it was the basic throttle body injection of it's day


Klas, thank you very much for your reply. We didn’t get the Corsa a here, but we did get the Corsa b and the Daewoo version of the kadett.

We’re these parts fitted to a Corsa b?

Any other pictures or details you could provide would be great.

I might get a chance to go to the breakers here and see what I can find.

Did you need to do any reprogramming or alteration to the ecu at all?

Did you need special computer software?

Author:  KLAS [ Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
Klas, thank you very much for your reply. We didn’t get the Corsa a here, but we did get the Corsa b and the Daewoo version of the kadett.

We’re these parts fitted to a Corsa b?

Any other pictures or details you could provide would be great.

I might get a chance to go to the breakers here and see what I can find.

Did you need to do any reprogramming or alteration to the ecu at all?

Did you need special computer software?

over here they did fit one type of engine to the Corsa B, too. it's called C14NZ and is the only one still using a dizzy at that time. all others are dizzy-less with a coilpack and a 60-2 trigger wheel.

no, i didn't change anything. after fitting i just started it up, let it smoke untill the lambda sensor was warmed up, i fitted a heated one, and the ECU reduced the fuel. after warming up i put it into diagnostic mode with a paperclip to adjust the timing correctly, oldschool timing light and turning the dizzy, and that was all. worth to mention, the idle control worked perfect right from the beginning. higher idle at cold start, dropping during warm up as you would expect, just as factory. despite a 1.4l ECU controlling a 1.0l engine.
our european ECUs are not reprogrammable, maybe yours are. if yes, you have some clever folks on your side of the world regarding GM ECUs https://pcmhacking.net/forums/
but i found it not neccessary to begin with.

the paperclip is also used to read the fault codes via a blinking MIL. but i never had a fault so i didn't try my universal diagnosis software, cheap ebay one that can handle pre-OBD2 systems

Author:  mickmini [ Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

Crimp my ride did a drop in conversion of a distributor for crank angle sensing for efi conversion on a Datsun 1600 on the Skid Factory.

Can't be that hard to do the same on a Lucas distributor. That is effectively what the accuspark module does. The main thing to note is that you need to match the output required by the factory ecu to that you are able to provide. And to make sure you have good bushes in the distributor so no slop.

Author:  Lindsay_Palmer [ Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

KLAS wrote:
Lindsay_Palmer wrote:
Klas, thank you very much for your reply. We didn’t get the Corsa a here, but we did get the Corsa b and the Daewoo version of the kadett.

We’re these parts fitted to a Corsa b?

Any other pictures or details you could provide would be great.

I might get a chance to go to the breakers here and see what I can find.

Did you need to do any reprogramming or alteration to the ecu at all?

Did you need special computer software?

over here they did fit one type of engine to the Corsa B, too. it's called C14NZ and is the only one still using a dizzy at that time. all others are dizzy-less with a coilpack and a 60-2 trigger wheel.

no, i didn't change anything. after fitting i just started it up, let it smoke untill the lambda sensor was warmed up, i fitted a heated one, and the ECU reduced the fuel. after warming up i put it into diagnostic mode with a paperclip to adjust the timing correctly, oldschool timing light and turning the dizzy, and that was all. worth to mention, the idle control worked perfect right from the beginning. higher idle at cold start, dropping during warm up as you would expect, just as factory. despite a 1.4l ECU controlling a 1.0l engine.
our european ECUs are not reprogrammable, maybe yours are. if yes, you have some clever folks on your side of the world regarding GM ECUs https://pcmhacking.net/forums/
but i found it not neccessary to begin with.

the paperclip is also used to read the fault codes via a blinking MIL. but i never had a fault so i didn't try my universal diagnosis software, cheap ebay one that can handle pre-OBD2 systems


Thank you very much klas, I’ll be off to the breakers soon to get the bits.

Author:  Lindsay_Palmer [ Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rover single point injection system, retro fit?

mickmini wrote:
Crimp my ride did a drop in conversion of a distributor for crank angle sensing for efi conversion on a Datsun 1600 on the Skid Factory.

Can't be that hard to do the same on a Lucas distributor. That is effectively what the accuspark module does. The main thing to note is that you need to match the output required by the factory ecu to that you are able to provide. And to make sure you have good bushes in the distributor so no slop.



Mick, I watched that conversion with great interest. I’ll probably build up to doing something similar on my Alfa once I’ve done the conversion klas has described to get a feel for injection conversions.

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