I'll take a pic inside my Chinese/Yankee 43D Pertronix Ignitor II dizzy tomorrow. I just can't see why they combined it with the rotor in this one.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Actually ,I reckon the one I have here is for the 45d distributor.

I'll send it up with my dizzy doc, you can see if you can make use of it.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

ok,,, i`ll bite then -----> ha!!!!,,, nothing to defend tho,,, seeing as i wasn`t the one who set it up,,, & if it` working fine then why bother changing it ?

& """If""" i were to set up a dizzy in any mini engine, then i set them in the stock position, but if i`m just backing off the timing for someone simply to stop it pinging, then that`s what i`ll do, loosen, adjust, tighten, job done ... However,,, i normally would mention if it`s been set up weired.

Edit---> & to be honest with you, i actually thought you were talking about my dad,,, """Mr Read""" who`s that??? Must be my dad I don`t think anyone has ever called me "Mr Read" before

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Got me Doc - I've just pulled out the original rotor arm and compared it to one of the new ones, and there is room... I didn't realize that the original rotor arm was so short, had so much less length on the dissy shaft.

Matt - if you prefer, you can be Mad Mr Read. There are too many other Matts on here claiming to be mad about Minis - had to try to be specific. And you're right - nothing to defend. And no baiting done by me. There is the chance you might have mentioned that it was set up oddly - it's a while ago now! I just don't remember it. You had a fair bit to tell me that day.

I heard back from the guru, and the answer is pretty well exactly as I thought. There is no difference if the polarity is switched in a auto transformer..there's no physical reason for the value voltage to be changed (other than the polarity being reversed).

The only other reason I can think of therefore is the spark creation, but even there, apart from some marketing inspired bullshit I can still think of no reason as to why it will be any different...

I reckon I will make my own 40kv voltage probe and see if I can work it out with a definitive value for value answer.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

OK here's some pics of my new Pertronix II (45D style) dizzy- the rotor looks like a stock one.
Pertronix 1 kit in a 45D looks similar.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Well... Sorry to keep this one going, but... I changed from the Blue Module to the Red Module today. I used a little sandpaper just to take the burn marks out of the dissy, and then applied the Silicon Heat Sink Paste to the Red Module's plate. As a side point, the Red Module is screwed onto its locating plate - so perhaps you can buy just the Red Module (without the plate to suit the dissy) if you burn it out..?

Anyway, put it in, it fired, but it sounded odd. It was idling very high, and sounded like it was missing. I noticed something else (my engine's an 1100S block with an 'S' head - not sure which - there are two holes in the head with no corresponding holes in the block at each end - one near the heater take-off, one near the thermostat, just outside the rocker cover, wanted to make sure these were just the extra head stud holes), so left the car for a bit (turned off!) and came in to research (head stud holes) on here.

I then went outside and took it for a test around the block. Nothing too difficult for the car. The engine felt like it had a tell-tale rev controller on it - it didn't matter which gear you were in, or what you did with the choke/throttle, it would idle or accelerate to whatever the highest revs previously used were. I kept the revs fairly low, given that dipping the clutch would send the engine back to peak revs. It was genuinely odd. The only way to reset this tell-tale-rev-control was to turn the car off and on again.

Whilst on the run around the block, in an attempt to keep the revs down, I did end up putting it into 4th. With very slight throttle, it started pinging. So I didn't go back into 4th! I brought it home, turned it off... Thinking I'd play with the timing. Though I didn't (where'd I put that manual..?). Still sounded like a Beetle/DakDak - like it was missing. So I checked my leads. None of the connections seem to have any issues - the connections I've been undoing to replace the modules all have less than 1 Ohm of resistance across them. The HT Leads have 8,000-9,000 Ohms of resistance (is this normal? They're all the same). All were/are connected well. I tried it again - wouldn't fire. I switched modules. Still no fire. Plugs look ok, and it would be surprising to lose all of them (running NGK BPES 6's). Nothing else has changed.

I'm not sure that the problem was caused by the Red Module. The car did start on the Blue Module before I changed to the Red Module, and it idled more smoothly, but I didn't take it around the block, and it won't fire now on the Blue Module. So I'm not blaming it (yet). Car has plenty of electricity - spins the motor over very happily. Plenty of compression - last test (2 years ago, but I'd guess less than 500 miles ago) gave 170+ for all cylinders (Cylinder 1 was 190! Dry Tests).

<Edit> Just tested Coil, it's 3.8 Ohms resistance. Just a standard GT40 (i.e. no 'R' on the Coil, or anything like that). Was working fine with points, so I don't know if that means it has a resistor in the circuit somewhere else. I've found a 'How To' on Old Holdens saying that you can test if a coil's working using a Test Light, but I gave my 415V (3 phase) Test Light setup away... And I don't think I'd get away with pinching a lamp to use it (hooked up with electrical wire). I also saw listed on a Land Rover site that perhaps a lower resistance coil is needed with Electronic Ignition..? But I thought these kits were meant to work as if they were points..? So they should work with the existing coil..? </Edit>

Does this sound like a dead coil..? Although the Voltage shouldn't be changed by the incorrect polarity, the polarity is, which means the spark plugs are positive earth in a negative earth car. Eventually this could cause problems..? Or could the timing somehow now be completely wrong..? Haven't changed the coil leads around still had the dissy cap on the same way... Not sure what I should be looking at. Help appreciated!

<Edit 2> Ok, just pulled the HT Lead from the Coil to the Dissy, and held it near the block while my wife turned the engine over. Had a nice spark, at least 10mm, so I'm guessing the coil might be ok. It wasn't the thickest spark in the world, but I can still feel it in the knuckle on my thumb 10 minutes after I pulled the lead away from the block just a little sooner than I should have. But, given the coil's still kicking a spark, it leaves me confused... If it's got spark, and I've only been playing with the spark part of the equation (i.e. not fuel/air), and not even timing, then why wouldn't it fire? Maybe starting it tomorrow (or whenever there's next access to the car) it will work... </Edit 2>

Ok... I've been through everything from the coil to the plugs, and checked the carbies. All electrical connections from the coil on look good. I think my choke might have been a bit iffy - choke cables on Twin HS2's are a pain! Well, they are, if they're all set up like mine. Just hard to get a screw driver onto the choke cable clamp, given the screw head is between the carbs (even with the Ramflos off, just awkward). I also noticed that the choke was acting on only one carb - the adjuster screw on one carb wasn't touching the cam lobe, no matter how far the cam turned. So I adjusted that screw...

I tried the car, it fired, but ran rough. Sounded like it was missing consistently. Enough to shake loose the Hopkirk-style accelerator pedal. So I re-tightened that, then checked the plugs (BP6ES, definitely 6). Cylinder 3 looked the most fouled (most black), 4 was the least fouled, but still blackened (not brown). Not what I'd expect, even with Twin HS2's (I'd expect the outer ones to run richer, if that's why it's black). WD40, rag, and a clean (plug tips still black), and it fired and ran much smoother. So I changed from the Blue Module back to the Red Module (feeling the whole time as though I was tempting fate), and tried it again. It fired again! Idled even more smoothly (still lumpy, it's got a big cam old man Mad Mr Read agrees), and seemed to have back some of the crisp bark on throttle that it used to have. I didn't take it out, I'll hopefully do that tomorrow. But it does show that perhaps I've just had a heap of other things go wrong - almost a perfect storm for someone as amateur as me - at the same time as I changed to electronic ignition...

So, the Blue Module works, and the Red Module works. Despite every pitfall and mistake I've made.

Just went for a run around the block... And I need some ideas. It was running on 3 cylinders max. Very rough. Given the roads are up and down around here, I didn't really get out of 2nd, at low speeds. Didn't want to break anything. It had no torque.

I got home, and decided to test spark. So I pulled the plug leads off, one cylinder at a time. Removing the leads from Cylinders 1 and 4 caused a dramatic loss in idle speed, the car almost stalled before I blipped the throttle. Cylinders 2 and 3 made practically no difference, idle speed remained basically unchanged whether they were connected or not. I know they were delivering spark, I got a boot from Cylinder 3 each time I disconnected it, and Cylinder 2's lead was happy to spark across up to 20mm to the block (thankfully no boot to me on this one!).

So... I'm going to go buy a new set of BP6ES's and a set of feeler gauges. What gap would be recommended for a 1275 (unsure of overbore), 170+psi on a dry, cold compression test..? Unsure of overbore, unsure of headwork, too big extractors (2" full race 3-1), twin HS2's. Does this sound like a good idea..?

Also, should I try a different coil..? I've just found one I had lying around (off a 1300 Kent engine, Escort, circa 74), it's a 12V oil filled coil, and runs about 2.8 Ohms of resistance, as opposed to 3.8 from the GT40 I've currently got in there. Don't know if it would be any advantage. Any advice..?

Stick with a known coil, the module isn't rated for high output coils, but GT40 coils are fine (don't use the GT40R) and try switching plug leads around to see if the fault follows with the lead. Just because you get a boot off the lead doens't mean there isn't a problem with it. Also wipe out your cap and all that usual stuff.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

Thanks for the advice, Mick. I thought the GT40 (it's definitely not a GT40R, nothing else written on it) was fine, and that these modules required a points-type coil (i.e. a high resistance, not a low resistance coil). Good to have that confirmed.

The inside of the dissy cap is pretty well spotless. It's only had smoke inside it, nothing else. It hasn't got any build up or what I'd consider (remember I'm a noob on this! I've played with brake conversions before (years ago), but never a dissy before this debacle! ) major wear around the rotor contacts. Rotor is of course brand new. Anything else I should be looking at here..?

I did what you suggested with the leads, and I switched 1 and 2, and 3 and 4. The same pattern appeared - cylinders 2 and 3 had no impact on idle speed, whether they were connected or not. Cylinders 1 and 4 had a major impact, the engine wanted to die - and quickly - with them not connected. Plus, as I mentioned a couple of posts ago, all the leads had roughly the same resistance, in the 8-9,000 Ohm range. So I'm going to take that as a hint the problem's in my plugs, not my leads..? I'll go buy some - that'll only take me an hour.

It`s starting to sound more like a head gasket problem to me

have you done a compression test yet? (sorry i didn`t go back & read it all to find out if one had already been done)

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

smoke is actually pretty nasty stuff around high voltages. Carbon (aka smoke) is an excellent conductor, put a lead pencil (which is actually carbon) across a pair of battery terminals and see what happens...wear safety specs! Wipe it out as best you can getting into all the corners with a rag.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

If running a big cam, don't expect plugs 2 and 3 to drop rpm the same as 1 and 4 do.... something to do with charge robbing.
My 1360 with RE282 cam is like that. Doesn't stop it putting 86.6HP through the treads though.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Did one close to two years ago, but the car's probably only done 500 miles since then. There are long periods of time when the car doesn't tend to be taken out. I had 190 in Cylinder 1, and low 170's for the other three. Car was cold (didn't warm it up), bores dry, throttle open. Had to borrow the tester last time, but can't get hold of one anymore.

Head gasket doesn't sound good... No mayo around the rocker cover cap though. Just a little gunge on the underside of the radiator cap. Plugs are fouled/blackened, 2 and 3 more than 1 or 4 (4's the cleanest).


I have no idea what the cam is. Previous owner built the engine (or, rather, had it built, somewhere in Cooparoo). But it sounds big. When I had it over at Matt's (2 years ago), he told me it sounded like it had a big cam in it - told me what he thought it was, but I can't remember now. Maybe that's something to do with the idle... In all honesty, half the time it feels like the revs rise when the plug lead comes off one of those two cylinders.

Got me some new spark plugs, NGK BP6ES, they seem to be gapped at about 0.031" (new feeler gauges, too), what should they be set at..? I'll gap them, and clean out the dissy cap. Then have another try... See what it idles like this time.

In all honesty, if it wasn't an hour's drive to Matt, or 45 minutes to Mini Auto, if I thought the car would take it, I'd just have it looked at by the experts... But then, by the time I get it tuned enough to take it to anyone, the odds are it'll be close enough.