Graham has never bagged them, as i said, they are good thing if your motor is close to stock spec with common modifications. but as soon as you work your motor then it becomes an issue. for the price that you pay i wonder why you wouldnt jsut get ur lucas one set up right ... .

To be more specific, Graham has not "bagged" them out. he has not had one on his dyno, but he has had plenty of motors on there with electronic ignition set ups and plenty of ones with Lucas set ups... wot sort of dizzy does one of the quickest minis in Oz run? what do most of the race cars run? lucas.

I think the thing to look at here is the fact that it will be a good distributor for bruiser steve, but then again getting a good lucas setup reco and fitted well on the dyno will also be equally as good for the use that bruiser (and most cars) get, for less $$

MY OPINION anyway

hmmm....people keep coming back to the issue of performance cars. In a race car the actual 'curve' is a little irrelevant because you're always on full advance, in fact some (most?) lock them on full advance - they're just not interested in what happens under 4k

Don't know about aussie, but the reason most NZ race cars run lucas is because the rules say they have to!

The comments about the pulsar dizzy being 'bad' for an engine are a little misleading (at best): ANY dizzy set with full advance too far BTD (ie too much advance) can cause issues, it has nothing to do with it's origins.

Fair enough, I just know GRs opinion means a lot to most of those reading this post, and I didn't want anyone thinking he was saying these were rubbish.

I think GR is a top bloke too ( I value his opinion and have found him great to deal with at all times!)

His opinion was more nuetral on the 123 product itself as he wasn't familiar with it in particular, but positive in favour of a modded lucas points dizzy, as the best set-up for a reasonable price if I remember it correctly..

Yes, it is a lot of money for the 123 setup, but I had been messing around with lucas dizzy's and not getting it quite right for a few years. Moved to a minisparc kit, and it was a definate improvement, but instead of getting it modded to suit the motor (cheaper option) I went for something where I could select the curves myself. That way I wasn't stuck with what someone else thought was optimum,who may not know the motor spec properly, or the use the car was going to get. Plus any further mods and that curve isn't right anymore.

Plus it was easy to install, no extra modules etc. Hook up two wires and you're away!

It's only a dizzy tho! Many would rather spend the $$ somewhere else, but I think you'll find those that have bought it are quite happy with it.

Would be interesting to see some dyno results with one, selecting the different curves in turn!

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68 Deluxe.... it's shiny..... I like shiny!!

Yes I would also be interested in this type of dyno testing. If anyone wants to lend us a 123 I am sure Graham and I are happy to Dyno it and publish the results using my engine as a mule

Oh and by the way it's more like AU$600 for the 123 which is a ludicrous price for the regular joe.

Also lets not forget that the minute curve differences between having the correct curve and having a slightly wrong curve could be something around 5-7hp difference on a 120hp engine. If $600 is worth your while for 7hp then go for it. Personally I'd rather spend this money elsewhere... I've have alot of opportunities to spend $$$$ to get that last few hp to make it more like 125hpor even 130hp if I really want to burn cash but really we are talking mega bucks for slight increases on the top end.

Bottom line, if your dissy is pretty close then it's good enough for a road car application. It is senseless to spend $100's or $1000's on achieving that extra few ponies...

If it is worth your while to squeeze every last drop then go for it. That's my opinion

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Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

This thread isn't about trying for bragging rights and my motor is not built for racing ricers or winning a pissing contest on the dyno the motor isn't built for that.

My motor is built to be a performance road car and longevity I've been lucky to have had its spec designed and built by top engineers with over 40 years of performance engineering experience.

As one is putting me through an automotive apprentiship and as i installed the motor and built all other mechanicals on bruizer it is all about learning. I need to fault find for myself and am in constant touch with these engineers so I can discuss the process. This is great as I want to be able to have precission engines at the cheapest cost as I too can't afford an extra $2-3000 on top of the cost of a motor for the finer secret points on A-series motors.

After the dyno at MDU where it ran at 38hp + 10% so lets say 43hp I new something was wrong but not with the motor but with whats hanging of it. I changed the needle back to what is was originally big increase in power but one day running hot the next fine then hot again. I knew the original distributor was damaged when the elf was crashed and since the motor has been in the van its never felt quite right. Changed the distributor and whoo even more grunt like the motor was when it was first built 12 months ago.

Seeing as I pinched the distributor out of the Austin mini I needed some ideas from people who have used 123mini distributors to see if I rebuild and regraph the one out of it or get a 123mini one.

I thank everyone for their comments and really apretiate those from people with them.

On that note,

The 123 has smoothed out the idling a lot. It is great to drive in the shopping centre, up steep hills and around town mostly in the sub 4K region.

It's all about reliably getting the spark to happen at the right time at any given engine RPM, and this the 123 does with penultimate ease.

Which is the main reason I bought it, as the car will be a shopping cart daily driver as well as a bit of fun.

Winning a dyno contest will not make me happy, but I would be interested in the effect of different curves on the power range (not top, as said this is a bit irrelevant as all happening at v high RPM.)

As a curiousity thing, but I won't lend you one. Try the aussie distributor;
www.123ignition.com.au

Talk to Ted Cross he is a good bloke!

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68 Deluxe.... it's shiny..... I like shiny!!

Hi People,

I know this post has not been posted in for a while but I thought I might as well offer my two cents worth.

Today I had the oppurtunity of taking my motor (in dads '68 deluxe) onto a dyno and have a real play. This is relevent to this post because....wait for it

we did a comparison between lucas points and a 123 Ignition system!

My father installed a 123ignition system in his 1974 Citroen DS before a 12,000 km rerun of the old round australia trials and it was just magic. The engine was 300% smoother and felt more responsive with an increase in power plus the added bonus of reliability.

After this we decided to try one out in the mini, so we did.

My motor is a 998cc bored out to 1030cc with:
- 12G295 Head
- flat top pistons
- wade 104 camshaft
- lightened flywheel
- balanced crank & conrods
- LCB Extractors
- 1 1/2" SU (still rebuilding the twins)

As you can see not a bog standard 998 but not a screamer either.
In terms of power, there isn't really a whole lot to gain in the ignition system and the main purpose of converting to electronic ignition in my opinion is in smoothness and reliabilty.

The findings were as follows:
-There was differences mainly in the torque curves between the two with the electronic having a smoother curve overall.
-The power was slightly higher with the electronic but as expected only by about 3 hp

Although we didn't test each curve, we kept as many constants as possible when comparing the two to ensure a fair comparison between the two.

However, to me these results are irrelevant (although dyno'ing my motor was a heap of fun) as I have been driving this car as a daily driver in all sorts of conditions and to me the electronic is worth it in the way it smooths out the engine and makes it more driveable. I realise that the units are expensive and I caan't offer a comparison to any other electronic system for a mini as I have never played with one. But I definitely don't regret the 123.

It seems to me that people are focusing on the performance aspect rather than the more practical driveability issue. I am not lucky enough to have a race car or a weekend car and I like my daily driver to be smooth and reliable. So far the electronic dizzy fits the bill quite nicely

For what it's worth the little beast managed 44.7hp at the wheels on the dyno so I am quite happy!

Hope this helps in the ongoing questions in this post

Cheers

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Mister White Keys
"He who has the most toys, Wins"

1963 Austin Countryman Woody
1964 Morris 850 Van
1967 Austin Countryman
1975 Range Rover 2 Door
2004 Subaru Forester XT
2015 Potts Teardrop Camper
RIP 1990 Citroen BX 16Valve

I just got my original dizzy rebushed and recurved and fitted a Petronix Ignitor Electronic Ignition kit. Pretty simple..... and it works.

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Hanras

nice to see a comparo between the two

so i guess you would use the 123 if smoothness is your thing as 3hp is not a great gain for the outlay ? or have i misread?

Other advantage Chris is- like any electrinic dizzy, there's no more points replacement or adjustment, and the timing stays correct for extended periods.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Don't Care It's Bling...had to say it

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Stop Licking the Dog...I Don't Care Who Started It

Mr White Keys..... Many thanks for sharing the info.

How many different curves did you run on the dyno?

I like the concept of the 123, and see the benefits as easy fit / set up, ability to vary curves easily yourself, smoother running, smooth idle, I believe the timing backs off to tdc below a certain rpm (1000rpm?). I am convinced it will be reliable, Marcel was keen to only use quality items in contruction, hence Bosch cap etc

I am sure it could be a 'fit and forget' item! Just get on with enjoying the car!

I was hoping the cost would have been a bit less, but them I'm a tight @rse!!

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Sir Alec! we are not worthy!

how much is it? I can see the benefit of not chagning your points and having
it stay in tune for longer, but i have heared its almost $500. and for an outlay like that
i would be happier going the modified pulsar route.

not that i am going electronic anytime soon tho

The main advantage with the 123 is the ability to change the curve easily.
How many minis have had the dizzy swapped without any care about the advance curve?
How many cars have had the cam changed without any care about the advance curve?
Most cars could use a dizzy that is correct for the engine but very few have them so the 123 is a simple solution to a complex problem.

The electronic ignition is another benefit. It does not matter if you have a Lucas with a Pertronix or a Pulsar or a Lucas Electronic you will find that your car will start much better and stay in tune longer than any points ignition.

Me, I will stick to the Pulsar as I am not after maximum power, I am just after relaibility, economy and smooth running.

so are we saying that five hundred dollars is too much to pay for a 3hp advantage work it out people that is a 7.5% increase what else can you do for that sort of money to produce that power with the advantge of the added reliability and reduced maintainence.. not to mention the Reduced Fuel consumption ..