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Using unleaded without flashlube.... safe???

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:10 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

Graham Russell suggested that too, but I dunno if he's tried it.
I'm skeptical it would work on valve seats as 2 stroke oils are ashless and leave little behind when burned.

Cast iron is a mixture of iron and carbon flakes, it's not a homogenous alloy like steel for example.
The real problem with cast iron `seats' (ie a stock Mini head) is the red hot exhaust valves contact weld to the head and pull little chunks of iron out when they open.
Until you see it in action it's hard to understand how bad it can be. I've seen exhaust valves erode the head so far the valves were well below the chamber.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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Morris 1100

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:24 pm

Causing or creating vexation

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 19124

Mike_Byron wrote:

Not trying to start an argument Morris1100 but just wondering on some points.

When you say daily driver and recognising you are in Goulburn. What is the average kilometres of your individaul trips. Are you in town ? Are we talking trips of say 1.5 - 2 kilometres ?

We know that recession occurs for a couple of reasons and heat is a major reason. Although your car may reach operating temperature, if its only for a few minutes then the factors causing recession would be quite different to someone in the city who spends an hour each way in traffic and at variable speeds.

As you know, we are 27 km from a major shopping cente (Mudgee) and 16 km from a minor shopping centre (Gulgong). Both are 100 kmh from the front gate to the town boundaries. I have now also seen enough heads from older cars to instantly know which are using flash lube and which are not. The differences in wear are very noticable.

I dont doubt you in any way, I am just trying to be a bit analytical about the whole issue.

Most of my driving is to work and back which would be about 2km each way. I do some longer trips like Canberra (1 hour each way plus driving around) and Sydney (2.5 hours each way + driving around) So it does get warmed up but not too hot. I never thrash it and I very rarely go over 90kph but the 1100 has a low final drive ratio (4.26:1) which gives 23.1kph per 1000rpm so 90kph is about 4000rpm. A 3.44 diff in a Mini gives 25.7kph per 1000rpm. (102kph at 4000rpm)

I have every expectation that the valves are going to recess into the seats eventually but since they have not done it yet I am not too worried

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czerial

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:41 pm

1275cc

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 5281

i just recently saw a mini head that had been running on straight unleaded for a substantial number of years and it had no valve seat recession at all. it got
driven hard also.,

graham reccomends to me that for the sunshine (1293) dont worry about using
anythin, but for the 998 daily he said that small bores need something he hates
flash lube (I dont know the full story, but they banned it from europe it will make ur
motor not run as well) he said the inline fuel catalysts are the best thing.

i think its important to differentiate between the small bores and bigs.

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:47 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

czerial wrote:

Banned from europe, eh... :lol:

http://www.lpga.org.uk/cgi-bin/Autogas/flashlube.html

FAQ's- http://www.lpga.org.uk/cgi-bin/Autogas/faq.html

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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ryan

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:04 pm

1275cc

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:50 pm
Posts: 2690
Location: Wollongong

is there any difference between the flashlube brand and the nulon (spelling?) brand, besides the fact the nulon is red?

Ryan

_________________
Ryan Filippi
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:06 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

There are all sorts of brands now. Some work, some don't. Dunno about the Nulon one but Flashlube has a good track record and it's cheaper than most others.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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ryan

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:07 pm

1275cc

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:50 pm
Posts: 2690
Location: Wollongong

Thanks Kev, i thought that was the case. I used it on my old head and it seemed to work fine. I'm now using flashlube cos it was cheaper and I trust it becasue of the name.

Ryan

_________________
Ryan Filippi
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au

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czerial

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:43 pm

1275cc

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 5281

that website pretty much just refers to gas conversions? yes they
metntion flash lube, but they dont mention its worth in use for petrol cars

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:11 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

check the 2nd link then. :wink:

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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czerial

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:18 pm

1275cc

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 5281

sounds to me like it was principally developed for LPG, but I think it
is one of those debates that wont have an outcome, I saw a head that
has run without anythng for years and the seats were like new, but
pleanty of people here have seen lots of heads that were destroyed.

seems mostly so far that its been the small bores that have been effected
without some form of lead replacement. the head i saw was off a 1275.

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:26 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

czerial wrote:

I've got recessed 1275 heads here too, it's not just a smallbore problem.
My motto- find something that works for you, and stick to it. I took the head off at 30,000 miles for a look. Never seen em so good.
The 1360 runs sweet, doesn't ping either- and C/R is 10.7:1.
It works for me.... :wink:

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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czerial

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:32 pm

1275cc

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 5281

yup perfect sentiment, whatever works for you,

but heads are gunna recess with age as they wear no matter
what the frig u put in them. The head that came of the sunshines 1293
(before i rebuilt it) had been sitting in a garage for almost 15 years, only
ever would of run on leaded, and it had slightly recessed valves.

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drmini in aust

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:34 pm

religious status

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
Posts: 39762
Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW

If they are recessed already, just bite the bullet and fit inserts. Costs about $140 for 4, fitted. :wink:

I can't fit them- the ex valves are too BIG... :lol:

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:

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Lillee

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:54 pm

1360cc

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:41 pm
Posts: 6858
Location: Special Tuning Sydney

Graham Russell pulled SU1400's head off last week. No air filter, no Flash lube, no Fuelstar, people like me and his sons been thrashing it, his sons to newcastle and back. It has about 120hp so it's no slouch.

It's done about 30,000 miles since last built (1995ish)

Head and valves and seats have NO valve seat recession or chunks of any sort. He has pics of before and after.

I am convinced that for the most part, it is ok to run full premium unleaded with no additives. As for the no filter bit well...

_________________
Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

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Joe

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:54 am

848cc

Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:17 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Melbourne, Australia

I'd probably run it without and just use the good juice, keep those safeway dockets for your mother in law or something.

and look at it this way, If you don't use flash lube and you pull the head off in 40,000 and its rooted, then you will kick yourself. If you do use flash lube and in 40,000 its rooted, you know you did all you can, yeah?

I fit _A LOT_ of LPG and when customers ask me about flash lube (we fit dripper systems) I usually tell them its unnecessary. keep your car tuned and running on good juice and I think you should be ok.

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