Ausmini
It is currently Sun Jul 27, 2025 8:35 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:15 am 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:07 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: Lemmings, everywhere.
Piston selection for a Mini engine is a simple task made hard by forums like this. Use these pistons because "so&so" says their good really is useless information. Talk to the engine builder about what you are going to use you engine for, it takes years of experience to pick the correct piston for your engine build and they will guide you in the right direction.
There are a number of pistons available to suit the A series engine, remember BMC/Leyland/Rover did make 18 Million A series engines so aftermarket piston development is nothing new.

Whatever piston you select needs to be correct of the application. Compression/pin height/ring size & type/skirt length & type/Piston to Bore clearence etc all depend on what type of engine you are building.

We, (NMP) used AE Hepolite pistons in all our change over Mini engines with great success. I built 10 engines at a time and we sold hundreds of them, we never had a return due to piston problems.

These days I still use the AE Hepolites in my std & mild A series engines. They are more expensive than the Hypatec brand but my experience tells me a Hepolite is a better product. While working as a Engine reconditioner at a Australia wide engine reconditioning business we used every brand of piston available, including the Chinese made Hypatecs because that was all that was available some times, often they were incorrectly made and required modification. We were a ACL main distributor and used ACL pistons in all the change over Holden/Ford/Mitsubishi etc engines.
ACL Pistons are now made by Mahle and are still a quality product. There Race series pistons are great, I have used many sets of the flat top 202 Holden pistons in the HQ race engines years ago with great success. We never had any problems with JP Alloy timing gears either and I still continue to use them to this day. Just ask Keith Davidson what he thinks of them.
I recently built 2 large bore 1100cc Mini engines using RE Pistons. I used Grahams pistons as they were the only +100 oversize pistons available cheaply and I wanted to support a fellow Mini engine parts supplier.

I recomended JP Pistons in SA and Special Piston Services in Vic as options for special applications. I build not just A series engines at my current employer, we often need specialy made pistons to suit modified road & race engines and both the piston suppilers can make pistons to suit.

I use JP Pistons for our Nb Mini racecar engine. JP were able to provide a 1275 Piston with my specific pin height/ring grove size & position and bore size. We have had no problems with them. I belive Matt Reid also uses JP pistons in his race engines with great success.
I also have used AE and Mahle pistons in race A series engines with no problems.
The last 997 Cooper engine I built I used short skirt std size Honda motorbike pistons. John Keneally built a 997 Targa Tasmania Cooper engine using the same Honda pistons 10 years ago and that car is still going strong.
As far as pricing goes for both JP & SPS, how long is a piece of string? Pricing depends on what you order. Telling people that JP are no good and that they crack is poor form, Cast pistons these days are very well made and would only give problems if they were not installed properly or didnt use the recomended clearence, compression etc. Remember, its not just JP that sell cast pistons for engines.

_________________
Have a Nice Day.
If already having a nice day please disregard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:08 pm 
Offline
Mods rock!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 5079
GR wrote:
HI GTMOWOG
The engine reconditioning industry generally know of the problems with JP Pistons and do not use them in performance applications, mostly where other pistons are not available any more.
I know they used to make performance holden V8 pistons that cracked, and one of my Melbourne customers had a successfull claim based on the fact of poor maching quality and alloy strength. Rudy Samperi, Federal Moguls claims engineer can verify this.
As for JP not wanting to deal with myself, they would not have known who they were talking to, as I rang for a price on mini pistons and sizes available, and was informed of the retail price, and was informed of 15% trade discount
If you are able to buy these pistons and rings for less than $200 incl GST and freight, then maybe you should offer them to other forum mini owners to help them out.
My 998 and 1100 pistons and rings are used extensively throughout the world,
Canada, USA, UK, Europe, Belgium, France, Norway, Denmark , NZ etc in high performance and racing applications, infact are a favourite in UK in grass track racing, one of the top engine builders in NZ uses them in mini7 racing, and the list goes on....
maybe I could send you a set of pistons for you to personally evaluate, and then you must pass them on to a member of this forum who is in need of real assistance,maybe that person would like to go racing, but cant afford quality pistons






Whoa there GR, you sound rather paranoid there!





850man wrote:
Piston selection for a Mini engine is a simple task made hard by forums like this. Use these pistons because "so&so" says their good really is useless information. Talk to the engine builder about what you are going to use you engine for, it takes years of experience to pick the correct piston for your engine build and they will guide you in the right direction.
There are a number of pistons available to suit the A series engine, remember BMC/Leyland/Rover did make 18 Million A series engines so aftermarket piston development is nothing new.

Whatever piston you select needs to be correct of the application. Compression/pin height/ring size & type/skirt length & type/Piston to Bore clearence etc all depend on what type of engine you are building.

We, (NMP) used AE Hepolite pistons in all our change over Mini engines with great success. I built 10 engines at a time and we sold hundreds of them, we never had a return due to piston problems.

These days I still use the AE Hepolites in my std & mild A series engines. They are more expensive than the Hypatec brand but my experience tells me a Hepolite is a better product. While working as a Engine reconditioner at a Australia wide engine reconditioning business we used every brand of piston available, including the Chinese made Hypatecs because that was all that was available some times, often they were incorrectly made and required modification. We were a ACL main distributor and used ACL pistons in all the change over Holden/Ford/Mitsubishi etc engines.
ACL Pistons are now made by Mahle and are still a quality product. There Race series pistons are great, I have used many sets of the flat top 202 Holden pistons in the HQ race engines years ago with great success. We never had any problems with JP Alloy timing gears either and I still continue to use them to this day. Just ask Keith Davidson what he thinks of them.
I recently built 2 large bore 1100cc Mini engines using RE Pistons. I used Grahams pistons as they were the only +100 oversize pistons available cheaply and I wanted to support a fellow Mini engine parts supplier.

I recomended JP Pistons in SA and Special Piston Services in Vic as options for special applications. I build not just A series engines at my current employer, we often need specialy made pistons to suit modified road & race engines and both the piston suppilers can make pistons to suit.

I use JP Pistons for our Nb Mini racecar engine. JP were able to provide a 1275 Piston with my specific pin height/ring grove size & position and bore size. We have had no problems with them. I belive Matt Reid also uses JP pistons in his race engines with great success.
I also have used AE and Mahle pistons in race A series engines with no problems.
The last 997 Cooper engine I built I used short skirt std size Honda motorbike pistons. John Keneally built a 997 Targa Tasmania Cooper engine using the same Honda pistons 10 years ago and that car is still going strong.
As far as pricing goes for both JP & SPS, how long is a piece of string? Pricing depends on what you order. Telling people that JP are no good and that they crack is poor form, Cast pistons these days are very well made and would only give problems if they were not installed properly or didnt use the recomended clearence, compression etc. Remember, its not just JP that sell cast pistons for engines.


Well said and put 850man.


I've used a LOT of JP pistons, Never had a problem with them, they are a good product, reasonably priced, well they are for me :wink:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:25 pm 
Offline
Oh dear, worry, worry...

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 692
Location: North Rocks
Hi GTMOWOG
Not paranoid just stating the facts, but correct me if i'm wrong but i don't think ACL Mahel, AE Hepolite who were bought out by fedral Mogal make 998 pistons let alone 1098 ones and i think they are dropping the 1275 range,which does not leave many companies making mini pistons any more,the pistons that i sell are 11/12 % silicon far higher than acl ae or jp pistons and the ring package is with out a doubt the best on the market at the moment, thats why i sell them to the top engine builders around the world.
I don,t have to prove a thing my products do the talking for me.


850 man
To start with Hypatecs are not made in china and are an excellent piston they are the same silicon content as mine.
You state that you use JP pistons in your race engines, you must have used these for the price because they have no place in a high reving A Series engine they are not strong enough and are to heavy, maybe you should have a look at your engine builds and stop stating on public forums that all NSW drivers are cheats along with your mate david from SA who i believe made a statment on another forum about one of us using a 73.5mm bore and a stroker crank to win by cheating why don't you put your money where your mouth is.
If you think we are cheating why don't you ask me to pull the head of any of the engines i build and measure them as i am very willing to do so,and so is Andrew Bergan, ever stoped to think that we all have a good package over all and that the cars are driven well,so put your dummy back in and go and have a good look at what you are doing.
Graham Russell

_________________
"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:00 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:07 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: Lemmings, everywhere.
GR wrote:

850 man
To start with Hypatecs are not made in china and are an excellent piston they are the same silicon content as mine.
You state that you use JP pistons in your race engines, you must have used these for the price because they have no place in a high reving A Series engine they are not strong enough and are to heavy, maybe you should have a look at your engine builds and stop stating on public forums that all NSW drivers are cheats along with your mate david from SA who i believe made a statment on another forum about one of us using a 73.5mm bore and a stroker crank to win by cheating why don't you put your money where your mouth is.
If you think we are cheating why don't you ask me to pull the head of any of the engines i build and measure them as i am very willing to do so,and so is Andrew Bergan, ever stoped to think that we all have a good package over all and that the cars are driven well,so put your dummy back in and go and have a good look at what you are doing.
Graham Russell


??? Cheating? Other Forums? What are you going on about Graham? I havent said anything about anyone cheating on any public forum let alone NSW drivers. - Please show me proof if you are going to accuse me of these claims.
I have just answered a question about pistons and shared my experiences.
As for JP pistons, a lot has changed since they started making gravity die-cast pistons 20 or so years ago, these days with modern "squeeze" casting the quality is far better and their 1275 pistons are well capable of 8000rpm.
Regards
David.

_________________
Have a Nice Day.
If already having a nice day please disregard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:27 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:12 am
Posts: 3398
Location: Quakers Hill Sydney
TL:DR

Blowog
"I build engines in my garage and i'm the best because I have a great moustache"

GR
"I build motors and ship them around the country. I also make my own pistons and ship them around the world. I also have no facial hair"

_________________
You're so square
Baby I don't care


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:01 am 
Offline
Bimmer Twinky
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 8606
Location: Brisbane
I`m not going to enter into any p!$$!ng match about any pistons or any ones racing prowess... however i do feel it necessary to make it known & quite clear that we have been using JP pistons in 73mm form in our race stroker engines up to & including 9000 rpms & have done so for many many years,

However,,, this particular piston is a tad heavy & we do lighten them for race use,,, couldn`t be bothered for road use tho,,,The JP623 piston which was designed by my dad in kahootz with the help of both Laurie & old Frank (RIP MY friend) from JP engineering way back ... there were about 5 incarnations of that piston (you could call it an evolution) it started way back with a combination of the old Datto 1200 piston & the std Cooper S piston joined together (so to speak),,, then it went from there with what JP could do at the time & changed as they were able to improve things with my Dad calling the shots where manufacturing methods & abilitys allowed

However,,, i`ve not been a big fan of the early small-bore (998 & 1098) JP pistons as they did tend to crack in the early days,,, But that`s a long time ago... i`ve not had any experience with the later versions but as far as i`ve been told they are fine for road motors,,, but as i`ve just said--> i havn`t used them lately at all.

So,,, as long as that`s quite clear then i`ll move on...

The hypertech is a great piston & comes in all shapes & sizes, however there are some "slotted" oil-relief type ones (smaller sizes) which i`m not a fan of, i prefer the drilled ones, but they havn`t been seen or heard of , nor proved to be any problem so far so we have to be happy with that hey???

I have used some of GR`s pistons,,, absolutely a great piston & well worth buying for some road & race applications,,, however with the ring pack up so high (which is a really great thing for piston stability & making power,,, or rather maybe loosing less power to be more accurate) i don`t choose them for my turbo twin-cam engines simply because to lower the compression on these engines i cut the tops off the pistons instead of opening up the chambers & ---> i can`t lop the amount off the top of them that i need to without leaving the crown too thin & weak & the top ring too close to the fire... not safe for this particular purpose... However,,, if i chose to grind out the cyl head chambers to lower the compression then they`d be absolutely fine for that application---> but for N/A twin-cam engines they would most certainly be a treat.

The manufacturers of the std issue hypertechs (in their early design stage) had taken a big leaf out of the design of my dads JP piston,,, & that`s a fact!!!

so with a little common sense & a small piece of history & maybe add a touch of humble-ism or humble pie,,, maybe we can all just keep this subject cool & play along happilly ok???

& please keep facts as facts & not spray hear-say

so,,, settle pettles

Ok???

_________________
No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Pistons/Cheating
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:05 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:10 pm
Posts: 154
Location: Sydney
850man

Yes you have accused us NSW competitors of cheating on the "other forum " -straight after we beat you at Phillip Island & the comments were made after we beat you again on your home turf at Winton.I also read it.Along with others.Sour grapes i think.

Why don't you be honest for once ( you;ve most likely deleted the post )
maybe one of the memebers has a soft copy.....?

Try coming up to NSW & have a run against us at our home track,or does this frighten you Mexicans....?

Andrew.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:35 pm 
Offline
ET 13.457 seconds , OH YEAH !!!!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 7826
Location: Somewhere Around Sydney
adamstuart wrote:
TL:DR

Blowog
"I build engines in my garage and i'm the best because I have a great moustache"

GR
"I build motors and ship them around the country. I also make my own pistons and ship them around the world. I also have no facial hair"


This was just funny :lol:

850man wrote:
GR wrote:

850 man
stop stating on public forums that all NSW drivers are cheats along with your mate david from SA who i believe made a statment on another forum about one of us using a 73.5mm bore and a stroker crank to win by cheating why don't you put your money where your mouth is.
If you think we are cheating why don't you ask me to pull the head of any of the engines i build and measure them as i am very willing to do so,and so is Andrew Bergan, ever stoped to think that we all have a good package over all and that the cars are driven well,so put your dummy back in and go and have a good look at what you are doing.
Graham Russell


??? Cheating? Other Forums? What are you going on about Graham? I havent said anything about anyone cheating on any public forum let alone NSW drivers. - Please show me proof if you are going to accuse me of these claims.
I have just answered a question about pistons and shared my experiences.
As for JP pistons, a lot has changed since they started making gravity die-cast pistons 20 or so years ago, these days with modern "squeeze" casting the quality is far better and their 1275 pistons are well capable of 8000rpm.
Regards
David.


GR wrote:
850man wrote:
Morris 1100 wrote:
850man wrote:
Well said Davo. Its a shame they dont have race car inspectors at the meetings, I am sure they would find a few interesting, not so "legal" mods amonst a few of the quicker cars.

You could always throw down the cash and lodge a protest instead of making accusations over the net.


Yep, I know that but I dont bother. I get much more satisfaction watching the Cheaters blow their engines up each race meeting and carry on about how quick their car is or how much HP they have, while us honest racers laugh at them.


Hi 850man
Here's one quote, the other one was on the other forum which you said.
"As far as i'm concerned all nsw drivers/ cars are cheats" with a little icon showing the finger, and a lot of other people saw it thats why i got so many e mails with links and private messages.
Grahan Russell


:shock:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=881325#881325


miniandmokeworld wrote:
850man

Yes you have accused us NSW competitors of cheating on the "other forum " -straight after we beat you at Phillip Island & the comments were made after we beat you again on your home turf at Winton.I also read it.Along with others.Sour grapes i think.

Why don't you be honest for once ( you;ve most likely deleted the post )
maybe one of the memebers has a soft copy.....?

Try coming up to NSW & have a run against us at our home track,or does this frighten you Mexicans....?

Andrew.

_________________
Image
Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:33 pm 
Offline
998cc
998cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:44 pm
Posts: 1179
Location: Sydney
From the "other forum":

Written by 850man on '12 March 2012 - 11:01 AM'

Quote:
One thing that did disturb me tho was the modifications done to a few of the minis that I had a chance to look at after the owners had gone home on saturday night. Our car, a group Nb mini is built to the proper Historic regulations and has all the correct parts, as the rules state the car needs to retain as many of the original period parts as possible.

A couple of Minis I looked at were far from that. Modified suspension piviot points, rose jointed shockers, alloy brake callipers, 4 sycro gearboxes, and other "illegal" mods may help these cars get quicker times but really, if thats what they have to do to get in front then I will sleep well at night knowing that our car is as quick as it can be, without cheating.



edit:
http://forums.minidriver.com.au/index.p ... hl__island

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:00 pm 
Offline
Causing or creating vexation

Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 19124
850man wrote:
We never had any problems with JP Alloy timing gears either and I still continue to use them to this day. Just ask Keith Davidson what he thinks of them.

The problems with the timing gears was the interference fit was wrong on the cam. They used to come loose on the cam. The gear slides forwards, the cam slides back, the timing goes out the window. Problem easily fixed with Loctite.

The next problem was when the steel centre and the alloy outer decided to work loose from each other, no fix. Chuck it on the pile and buy another one.

The gears needed to be matched and carefully run in but they still only had a limited life. The shortest life was two laps of Oran Park. (and twelve bent valves)
The longest life was 6 months or 12 race meetings.

When I cleaned out the shed there was a pile of 12 shagged JP timing gears on he shelf.
They may have improved since I gave up racing. I hope so.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:08 pm 
Offline
1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:07 pm
Posts: 1882
Location: Lemmings, everywhere.
Image

_________________
Have a Nice Day.
If already having a nice day please disregard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:28 pm 
Offline
High heel ninja
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 6:36 pm
Posts: 4979
Location: Radelaide, South Australia
Quote 850man

Well said Davo. Its a shame they dont have race car inspectors at the meetings, I am sure they would find a few interesting, not so "legal" mods amonst a few of the quicker cars.


Doogie

_________________
I won Hay once, here's the pic to prove it..
Image

Hay, it's not about the car, it's not about the venue, it's about the people that come here. Peter Dwyer, Mayor of Hay NSW.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 7:45 pm 
Offline
Oh dear, worry, worry...

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 692
Location: North Rocks
mini1990 wrote:
From the "other forum":

Written by 850man on '12 March 2012 - 11:01 AM'

Quote:
One thing that did disturb me tho was the modifications done to a few of the minis that I had a chance to look at after the owners had gone home on saturday night. Our car, a group Nb mini is built to the proper Historic regulations and has all the correct parts, as the rules state the car needs to retain as many of the original period parts as possible.

A couple of Minis I looked at were far from that. Modified suspension piviot points, rose jointed shockers, alloy brake callipers, 4 sycro gearboxes, and other "illegal" mods may help these cars get quicker times but really, if thats what they have to do to get in front then I will sleep well at night knowing that our car is as quick as it can be, without cheating.



Hi 850man
David maybe you should read your cams manual,
Pick up points may be moved by no more than 25mm
Rose joints maybe used on sway bars and shocks,
alloy calipers were period
4 speed sycro boxes are now allowed along with 1100s blocks
Please tell me about the other ILLEGAL mods
If you have any other problems give DAVID TWIGG a call he's down in your part of the world he be only to pleased to help you out.
You may like to know that he went over all the group n cars both NB and NC up for the MCM making every body remove wheels to check brakes and suspension.
Graham Russell

edit:
http://forums.minidriver.com.au/index.p ... hl__island

_________________
"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: moving on now.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:07 pm 
Offline
998cc
998cc
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:39 pm
Posts: 586
Location: qld
Hi

I am a plus one for moving along now.

If genuine parties in this 'concern' have all had a chance to voice concerns over the forum, then i would be all for moving on.

i am 'for' anything that gets brought up in a forum a proper right of reply in the same vein, but now if the concern needs to continue perhaps it can be done individually via pm or such like until some end point occurs.

Cheers FNQ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:09 pm 
Offline
Yay For Hay!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm
Posts: 15912
Location: Wodonga - Vic/NSW border
this is just ridiculous

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Goldbrocade_62 and 100 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

© 2016 Ausmini. All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.