I know of several genuine Cooper's that were raced in Appendix J as Cooper 'S's, I also know of a genuine English 1071 that used to race in the early 80's in Appendix J (with its 1071 engine). Would anyone do it now? Probably not.

Ken Nelson raced a genuine Cooper S didn't he?

So the new version of the document has the following differences from the previous version:
No mention of weber carb. Now states single HS2!
Sway bars front or rear not allowed. Were allowed before.
No mention of electronic ignition modules. Previous version said points only in front but had something in the appendix. I can't remember what though.
The photo at the front is for a car with flares and wind up windows. WTF? Flares are not mentioned in the text at all. Previously outlawed.
Diff now says open, last version said LSD allowed.

Perhaps carbs, ignition and other things are covered in a generic class rules area somewhere else?

This version appears inferior to the earlier one.

CAMS = Can't [be] Arsed Making Specs [correct]

It's all gone downhill since my schoolmate Gary Connelly left years ago.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

well

again thanks to beanie for sourcing the docs and then the update .

I did receive the updated version from Cams (cameron) via email and it is the 2012 version as on the new weblink in this thread

i am more confused, and mokestas pointing out of the single hs2 carbie without any mention of something else in appendix is worrisome.

Just imagine how competitive i would be following this spec.

Have placed a follow up technical query into cams and will update as i get info to hand.


Cheers Darryl

ha!!!,,, well there you go,,, Gary got me my level R5 International rally licence he was head of Rally Australia at the time

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

So , very Quick response from Keith at CAMS ( can't knock that)


as stated

the spec sheet now only has information that is relevant to that model of car. All the other information in the previous version’s appendix was of a general rules for all vehicles.

Directly under the photo it states, refer to the Cams Manual Of Motors Sport historic general regulations & the Nb regulations for allowable modifications.

So in the CAMS Manual Of Motor Sport historic section of group N cars states that any carb. of the period is allowed with one choke per cylinder.

The Mini Nc spec sheet will also have the appendix removed when it is updated.


so if read correctly in conjunction with the general stuff it starts to make more sense...... just a hard way to get there

Happier now Cheers Darryl

Yeah thats what i was thinking , Its a general Guide for the cars
What size the engine is what bore and stroke , how many gears ..

so things like weber carbs and sway bars come under the general regs for Nb

People give CAMS a hard time but its a crap of a job to have to know the specs of the Historic cars

Think its time i build an Nb car Then i can have one of each


Beanie

_________________
I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

Just to back up what GR has said. If you are building a serious Nb or Nc car you would be mad to run a genuine Cooper S shell. The racing is very fast and accidents do happen when you mix Mini's, Cortina's, Mustangs, EH's and the odd Galaxie.

Cooper S shells should be built into nice road cars and looked after. The debate of ís it a Cooper S is null and void in this arena as all that matters is lap times. I quite often laugh when I hear middle age guys going on about my Nb car that is badged as an Austin with English plates and they say how original it is and brag to their mates about knowing so much. They are shocked when I tell them it is a 1961 850 shell. (and a Morris at that!) I have a 997 Cooper and I certainly would not race that!

Things used to be different. Keith Mckay used to race the Ex Manton 997 Cooper in Appendix J many years ago. Luckily it survived with no major accidents.

Enjoy the racing for what it is. The cars are full Cooper S spec and beyond. Don't worry about body numbers and individual car histories.

HRS

My red car one of the first 1275 S's ever made ran Group C then Appendix J then Group N up until 99.
It is a genuine Austin Cooper S, and has spent all its life on the track and will continue to do so.
Kens Silver car is a genuine S with some interesting international history.

_________________
1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car

Malcon Rutshacks Nb car that was stolen was meant to be a genuine s shell too

_________________
I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

Agree with the numbers - not dreaming - insane to use an original & to be competitive. Would anyone dare

As for colours - yep a 1964 genuine race car respray - go figure

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..still waiting for the Italian Job sequel to see if the bus went down

Hi XC9000,

On group N body colours I'm sorry mate, I agree with GR.

These race cars you mention are all run and paid for by privateers (without sponsorship) at great expense for both the satisfaction of themeselves and the interest of the spectators.

Now most of Sydney's greatest most exciting race circuits over the years have been coverted to housing estates, these guys (many whom have been racing before I was born!) try new bold colour schemes to keep group n interesting, and should you ever get a chance to inspect the work than goes into these paticular race cars - you should take it

Like GR said wait to you see his lastest surprise for you!

you cannot say that the issue of paint colour is just for the owner's benefit.

A few years ago when graphic designs on cars were all the rage a few Mustang owners plus others put things like large horses into their paint schemes.

All of a sudden the racing stopped looking like the heyday of Peter Manton and Norm Beechey and started looking like Saturday afternoon at the Summer nats. The rules had to be amended to ensure period correct paint schemes with no graphics were enforced.

The look of the cars is carefully controlled so you should be able to look at a photo of a Group N race and be hard pressed to tell if it is now or the 1960s.

That is the point of HISTORIC racing. If you want to express yourself with paint go and race a club car or sports sedan.

I am not saying that cars should only be raced in factory original colours but that the paint scheme should be in keeping with the period. GR's car would look ridiculous if it was painted in Hi Vis Yellow instead of the shade it currently is, correct?

HRS

@HRS, you have obviously NOT seen GR's new car...
Where are my sunnies...

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.