i remember about a year ago spending 3 nights in a row in the garage out the back. It was pretty cold at the time; doing the wiring. Me on a liottle stool and a soldering iron with the radio on the nightly countdown....anyway i did the quick way as there werent too many wires that were frayed. However it did work well once the engine went abck in. Just snipped it at the point were it started to fray and soldered on the new piece and crimped a connector on the end. Lookign abck though, if i needed to do the job again on my new mini, i would do it proper and get a new loom...sorry so much talk for such little information....but yeh if you like doing electronics which i dont mind, it isnt a bad/hard job to do

Well well well!

Last night I spent 2 hours in the garage on a stool with the radio on! I did exactly that, cut the wire just before it starts to fray and soldered a new bit and crimped a new spade plug on the end, heat shrink tubed the connection and bob's your uncle, new wire!

It's not THAT hard. I agree if I was going to "replace" every wire from end to end then it's not worth it, but my loom at it's current state is shocking to say the least (pun intended). The previous 6 (?) owners must have done several patch up jobs on her. Some bits of wire (like the temperature gauge sender wire) was already made of like 3 separate wires twisted to eachother end to end!

Once that was replaced it looked neater and probably sends the correct temperature too

All the ignition coil connections were shocking! And by far the worste was the starter soldenoid connections

I am amazed Lillee starts every time like she does... Anyway after all that, I started her up and checked that all the lights work and alternator recharges, everything is sweet!

Tonight I am going to tackle the bunch of wires at the top left of the bonnet, these look daunting. It is truly looks like C3PO in empire strikes back when he gets blown apart!

Thanks for all your help, I am sure I will have more questions putting in a new loom eventually...

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Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

congratulations on 2 counts
1 for having a go
2 for having a win
electrics arent that tricky if you have a logical think about it, and the practical skills to make good shielded connections.
PS dont underestimate tagging the wires if you used one colour... if yo do pull the loom for some reason other than replacement it will sure help refitting it again..

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No longer Ms Westwoods mini outside her original kings road shop

while on ther topic someone (cant recall who ) mentioned electrons moving on the surface of the strands hence multi strands.... well done thats exactly right from memory of learning this in my apprenticeship its called either "skin" or "skim" effect...
cant recall which...
the reason to re asses the guage of wire which i mentioned at the begining of this thread is relivant in that wire upsizing within reason isnt going to effect car electronics.. especially in a mini (or any old car for that matter) BUT we are all adding extra drain on our electrics, running bigger alts etc to provide the extra current.. but as someone else said ther manufacturer tends to use the cheapest workable part ie wire as small as they can use successfully... with some running high current accessories and alts, it does make sense to look at the wire guage.

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No longer Ms Westwoods mini outside her original kings road shop

Yeah so far I have been lucky in that the wires that I replaced are with the same colour that I am replacing it with (like dark green, red, black). Not sure where to get white with red stripes from, or brown with green stripes

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Lillee - 1969 Morris Mini K

G'Day,
Skin effect only happens at very high frequencies. As this is DC, most of the current is carried in the bulk of the wire core, hence the Cross Sectional Area is the important factor. Otherwise manufacturers would make hollow wires to save on copper....
Even your house wiring is rated by C.S.A. in square mm.
What kills 40 year old wiring is the vinyl acid released from the insulating plastic covering. It turns copper black. When it has the black oxide it forms a high resistance (and large voltage drop) to any terminal it is crimped on to. This is the point of failure. It will also not solder at all and needs to be at least scraped with a knife blade before crimping, but this only delays the inevitable. Multiple strands of fine wire are only for flexability, its harder to fatigue many small wires than one large one.
Dino.

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Over 1,000,000Km, but now my retirement restoration project

After talking to the engineers at work here, they tend to disagree circus. The thicker the wire, the greater the resistance as there is less surface area. Electricty is Mostly passed along the outer diameter of the wire. Call the Channel 7 Tech depatment if you like.

Cheers

Aaron

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Don't listen to all the experts, wiring is easy. It is just like plumbing.

The wires are in fact hollow and the alternator is really a pump that pumps smoke up through the wires. That is why you sometimes have problems and the smoke gets out.

So all you have to do is keep the smoke inside the wires!

G'Day Aaron,
Skin effect is a tendency for alternating current (AC) to flow mostly near the outer surface of a solid electrical conductor, such as metal wire, at frequencies above the audio range. The effect becomes more and more apparent as the frequency increases.
The main problem with skin effect is that it increases the effective resistance of a wire for AC at moderate to high frequencies, compared with the resistance of the same wire at direct current (DC) and low AC frequencies. The effect is most pronounced in radio-frequency (RF) systems, especially antennas and transmission lines. But it can also affect the performance of high-fidelity sound equipment by causing attenuation in the treble range (the highest-pitched components of the audio).

Skin effect can be reduced by using stranded rather than solid wire. This increases the effective surface area of the wire for a given wire gauge. Tinned wire should be avoided because tin has higher resistance than copper. In large RF antenna arrays, hollow tubing can be used in place of solid rods with little or no loss of efficiency; in this respect, skin effect is an asset. It also works in favor of the use of copper-clad steel wire for more modest antennas. Such wire is mechanically stronger than solid or stranded copper, because steel has a higher tensile strength than copper. The skin effect causes most of the current to flow through the copper cladding, which is a better electrical conductor than steel.

Skin effect occurs with BRIEF pulses of current, for the same reasons it occurs at high AC frequencies. This can save lives. If you are caught in a thunderstorm, you can take refuge in a car or other metal vehicle and be relatively safe even if you suffer a direct hit. The skin effect causes virtually all of the current to flow on the outside of the vehicle as it passes between cloud and ground.

If it was all skin effect we would be using copper ribbon instead of wire.....
Dino.

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Over 1,000,000Km, but now my retirement restoration project

When you were saying you were going to replace and repair the front wiring Loom Iwent... This what you could have on your wall at home


Ow Mr Heart What a Mes. And that what I think Also..I'm surprise Marcia even started with the amount of wires missing
Anyway I'm getting throught it slowly.
Which brings me to my next point (or Thread)
As mentioned in this thread what increasing Guage of wire should I use for the Alt and Headlights etc as they will be upgraded

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Stop Licking the Dog...I Don't Care Who Started It

My guess would be a gauge of wire similar to what was on the vechile that the upgraded component was taken off. ie if you are upgrading your alternator with one from a pulsar then a guage of wire similar to that used in the pulsar would be the best bet.

Now to find a pulsar so you can have a look Huh

I expect this would work

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Roads need more corners
A Deluxe(CG13DE), 2 Clubbies(998 and 1275) and 2 Morris 1100Ss

If you think so Dino.

Cheers

Aaron

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G'Day Aaron,
No offence intended, just what I believe works for me.
Gaf, when I rewired up my front end I went to supercheap and bought some rolls of wire. They sell it by ampere capacity, and I used 15Amp from the relays to the headlamps, separate wires and relays for high and low beams and ground return back to a new fusebox with separate fuses for both beams. I also ran separate wires to the relays for left and right headlights. Blinkers and parking lights 6.5 or 10 amps is fine. The most important thing is to get rid of all the bullet connectors and reduce the current through the lights switch to just switching the relays. I got my 12 volts supply from the battery side of the starter solenoid, double wire to the relays as the common contact supplies left and right fillaments at the same time. Then I fitted new H4 halogen bulb sockets as well.
For the alternator I used the heaviest gauge I could find, even the Lucas can supply some 35 Amps, better with a Hitachi (Pulsar) at 75 Amps . Be guided by the battery cable to your starter solenoid. The whole lot was then wrapped in spiral wrap, (also from Supercheap) I think I paid $6 for 15 metres. PM me if you want to see what I did or any help.
Dino.

Dino.

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Over 1,000,000Km, but now my retirement restoration project

Sorry Aaron, you may be right for RF etc but for DC or mains frequency, Circus M is right. Ask any house electrician..
Welding cables, for example (whether DC or AC) are current rated on cross sectional area. The current rating is proportional- 2x 95mm2 wires will carry twice as much current as 1 does.
I spent 29 years troubleshooting automatic welding equipment (and big voltage drops) until I `retired'.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

If you think so.

Cheers

Aaron

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