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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:14 am 
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Timinik wrote:
So in theory, if someone found a completely rusted out, dented cooper s, that needed almost every panel replaced, it would no longer be genuine, and illegal, so thus, not worth any effort at all, so in theory, worth nothing and scrap the lot.
Yes?

I know where there is an S exactly like that, and yes it is being scrapped, body numbers and all. It is just too far gone to do anything with.
Memo to all- never ever park a car under a tree and leave it for years... and the fact it had a fabric sunroof didn't help a bit.. :cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:23 am 
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Memo to self - move the Moke out from under the tree.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:02 am 
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Well it appears that the rules are flexible,unless I have missed something. That unless the exact legilation (not hearsay)can be produced with chassis built cars only ,there remains a question mark. I recently sold a car, to a person in Victoria, as a matter of fact.It had a chassis number as well as a body number.Do you think that the Vic Roads would not be interested in the body number,but simply base its authenticity on the chassis number.I don't think so.Not being from Victoria I will leave it up to the experts to deliver the info.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:04 am 
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And by the way, I still seek answers as to how much a body can be rebuilt? Thanks


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:02 am 
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I think it all comes down to morals and ethics - do unto others etc.

It used to be that society operated on the premise " I respect you and your right to treated fairly and honestly- I will not abuse that right and I expect that you will not abuse that right with me and we all get along with one another."

The recent riots in England shows the moral backbone in society is breaking down and respect of other quiet enjoyment of property and posessions is being disregarded. That does not make it right just very disturbing as society can not function without respect for others.

We move in circles of similar interests and ethics - people that don't share our values we tend to keep away from or at least proceed with caution and limit our exposure.

I would like to think we in the Mini community at least respect one another and do unto others as we expect to treated in return.... with honsesty and respect

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:46 am 
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isn`t it weired,,, In England (back in the day) the body shell had a part-number & was able & allowed to be replaced, provided that a pile of the original cars other major items were utilized in the process

now that`s a fact

but here in Aust, that wasn`t the case & never was & i believe it never will be,,, if we switched bodys, then it was a different car,,, yet if we "Repaired" a body & kept the original numbers, then that was ok

read into that what ever you like,,, but that`s the facts,,, murky waters to wade in , but still the facts

But,,, in reality,,, if you have a small piece of the fire-wal that just so happen tohave some genuine "S" numbers on it,,, & a piece of the rad-shroud that also happen to have the genuine matching numbers on it,,, then what you have is 2 bits of panel metal with numbers on it,,, that`s all

What you do with that lot is the dilemer right?

if you attempt to fudge another mini body shell to incorporate those numbers,,, then technically it is "Illegal" here in Aust,,, so that`s a personal "Ethics" issue in your own concience

if you willingly submit these number0panels for sale anywhere, then chances are they will be listed across/within the mini scene as a "non-genuine-able" number-set & obviously become "Black-listed" by the purists

however,,, if you offer these panels for sale, then i suggest that it`s not Illegal to do so,,,, provided that they were never fitted to fudge another mini body shell with

so hang them on the wall,,, sell them off,,, stick them in a cupboard,,, make a frame for them,,, whatever,,, it`s not Illegal to sell them tho

what they`re worth tho is (as i said earlier) --> what someone is willing to pay for them

hat they do with them is up to them & them alone,,, it`s their concience & only a problem "IF" one gets caught fudge-ing another mini body shell with them

I have "Nevere" & will Never attempt such an opperation,,, i`m too much of a purist i spose,,, just can`t do it myself,,, it`s not right

but,,, Legally it`s not allowed, so they should jst be a framed picture on the wall or sit in a display cabinet

heaps of GT-HO`s out there fudged too , yeah???

there are way way way more supposed Genuine "S"`s out there than were ever made,,, so who`s to say diddly,,, it`s a matter of that persons own concience comming back to bite them in the bum later

not much else can be said on this one really,,, lots of going round in circles,,, there`s no real answer i`m afraid,,, it`s up to the individual & what they choose to do with it all

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:51 am 
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origmini wrote:
WHEN IS A COOPER 'S' , NOT A COOPER 'S'

Recently ,I was posed the question,as to the authenticity of a MK 2 Cooper 'S'. I believe that the Body Number alone,if its original,
constitutes this claim.In support of this argument,I refer you to the events below.
From the factory,Mini K's,Deluxes and MK2 Cooper 'S's begin their journey along the assembly line.The same guards,doors bonnets,
floor pans,rear quarters,bulkheads,turrets and other body panels are assembled to form one of the above mentioned cars.When the body
of either is complete ,it is modified and stamped according to the orders.If it is a Cooper 'S',it then accepts its disc brakes,twin
tanks 1275 engine and gearbox,oil cooler etc.Depending on when it was made and sent to the dealers ,it then may be fitted with a
compliance plate.
Once sold,accidents,rust and fire may lead to deterioration of the body, which could lead into the following scenarios.
A rusted guard is replaced.Is it still a Cooper 'S'? A RH Door,RH Quarter Panel,RH Tank and Bootlid are replaced through accident.
Is it still a Cooper 'S'? The whole floor has to be replaced after damaging it, on passing over a speed hump.Is it still a Cooper 'S'?
A tree falls on the turret and bends the car like a banana.The whole body is rebuilt around the only surviving part ,the radiator
surround that contains the body number.Is it still a Cooper 'S'?
I think the general idea is conveyed.I believe that if a Cooper 'S'is rebuilt around its original stamping it can still be
classified as a Cooper 'S'.I have not disregarded other features pertinent to MK 2 Cooper 'S's. ON checking with the Roads and Traffic
Authority (R.T.A.), if you simply stamp the VIN Number on the radiator shroud or weld that Number Section on ,then the car is said to be
rebirthed.However ,if the car is rebuilt around the radiator shroud(inner guard) it would not be classified as rebirthing.All parts
could be replaced(i.e. guards,bulkhead,rearcut,roof,floors etc).Authenticity could be also assisted with receipt and photo of the original car.No doubt if a Cooper S had taken a severe hit on the Left Front Guard,destroying the radiator surround ,I'm sure that the purists
would restamp the shroud,to maintain the Cooper S status.This action -totally illegal according to the R.T.A.
Many veteran ,vintage and classic vehicles have been rebuilt by collecting chassis,bodies,engines,bits and pieces etc.,from all over the World,to form collectable vehicle. Many are them are sold and their authenticity is never questioned, but, simply admired .


this is where it`s at

well typed,,, & damn good points & that`s the age old -->"Grandfathers axe" thing

But,,, obviously we all (here) have this "feeling" that this is one not the case for this particular topic

& i don`t think it`s ever going to end,,, i don`t think there`s any definitive answer to this one,,, Except for the simple--> personal conscience & ethics factor

who`s going to be able to police that????

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Authenticity
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:27 am 
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TheMiniMan wrote:
Except for the simple--> personal conscience & ethics factor

who`s going to be able to police that????


The individual

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:35 am 
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TheMiniMan wrote:
there are way way way more supposed Genuine "S"`s out there than were ever made,,, so who`s to say diddly,,, it`s a matter of that persons own concience comming back to bite them in the bum later


Not that I am condoning or condemning any practice alluded to here but it is not possible to make more Cooper S's in this way. One has to die for "another" to live.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:42 am 
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ashes to ashes,,, dust to restored cooper S :-)

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Here's my opinion...
I have an 850, and i'm proud of it... I don't wish it was a Cooper S or any other model.
If you have a Deluxe, Clubman, Minimatic or any model mini, Don't be sitting there wishing it was something else. Be happy with what you have, because they are all cool in their own individual ways.
8) 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:49 pm 
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MrFail wrote:
Here's my opinion...
I have an 850, and i'm proud of it... I don't wish it was a Cooper S or any other model.
If you have a Deluxe, Clubman, Minimatic or any model mini, Don't be sitting there wishing it was something else. Be happy with what you have, because they are all cool in their own individual ways.
8) 8)

Unless you cannot find the parts from that?
Are you saying that I should not fit disc brakes to my car, because they didn't come with it? or not fit the minilite rims?
My car will be a bitsa, but it will be finished how I want it to be.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:59 pm 
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no, i think Mcfail was just saying to do what you want with your car, just don`t try to "pretend" or attempt to make it into something that it will never actually be,,,, the topic question /title in point

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 3:11 pm 
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TheMiniMan wrote:
no, i think Mcfail was just saying to do what you want with your car, just don`t try to "pretend" or attempt to make it into something that it will never actually be,,,, the topic question /title in point


Yep, exactly what I mean, Don't pretend that something is what it really isn't. Mine's an 850 with a Clubman 1098, I don't sit there and pretend that it's perfectly originally etc, nor have I not put on new parts to improve it's safety/performance etc.

But if you like the look of a car, and you build a replica - that's fine - but be truthful and say it's a replica rather than trying to pass it off as the geniune deal. Just like how they build all of the rally works replicas.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:39 pm 
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TheMiniMan wrote:
there are way way way more supposed Genuine "S"`s out there than were ever made,,, so who`s to say diddly,,, it`s a matter of that persons own concience comming back to bite them in the bum later


I think we all have the amount of Cooper S's originally made way off.
The amount of people I get telling me "I had one of them, it was a'real one' but, a Cooper s" they would easily cover how many we believe were made,
And I don't know that many people :lol: :wink: :lol:


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