Oh ok I just thought if it was yours you could of explained it better, then what the eBay ad shows.

Cheers dan

Isn't this all a bit up to whoever buys the car?

Sure, I happily accept that some here would not ever accept a reshelled car as being original. No problem with that. It is each of yours personal decision.

However, there are others who don't see such a problem with that, and perhaps see it as a way to get the spirit or whatever of a car they desire?

The seller here has made it pretty clear in the listing proper that this car has been reshelled. I seriously doubt there is anyone who would be bidding now on this that wouldn't first study the listing in its entireity and thus be well aware of the discrepency between the title description and what the full narrative says?

It just seems arguing about this car and making disparaging comments about the seller is not great form?

In For sales here on the forum things are set so that people cannot slag off a seller or what they have listed, and now that the seller of this on eBay has made it very clear in his listing about the reshelling etc, he should be given a break and allowed to sell his car in peace.

Who knows, whoever buys it might well become part of this community and/or one of our car clubs, and then contribute greatly to some or all of our Mini enjoyment?

/rant

Davo

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1965 Mk1 Cooper S Sprint/Hillclimb/Rally Car
2012 Land Rover Defender 90

It has not been re-shelled.
It is a Mini K. It was born a Mini K and still remains a Mini K.

The only Cooper S bit is the engine with the ground off engine number.

I think the problem is the listing (1970) Morris Mini Cooper S , the seller does his best to state its a cooper s but then goes on to say reshelled mini k etc as the numbers dont match a cooper s , just sounds a little disingenious to me.

Perhaps if the seller changed the listing name ?.

And for my 2 cents worth if i bought a piccaso and found out it wasnt an original and the seller says yes but it looks like one well ........... it may look/perform as well but its the percieved value of an original object not wether it performs a certain way.

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Project Pickles is ALIVE!!!!! Click Here!
Success is so much sweeter after the struggle

As Morris1100 said, this car has not been reshelled! It is and always has been a K with some cooper s parts on it and therefore should be advertised as a K with cooper s parts. However, the seller is calling it a cooper s....something it has never been!

Ok as a previous buyer of a falsely described cooper s I feel i can talk with some knowledge on this subject. When I found out I felt gutted, angry, dumb and sad so i made the decision to never disguise the car as something that it was not and it was well known as being a non genuine S. When it came to selling it the hard part was how to describe it and what price to ask as i had really done my ball$ on it. So i asked many as to what value i should put on it and how to describe it knowing full well what it was.

This car looked and performed every bit a cooper s right to all the parts and ID. However when I sold it the ad clearly stated that it was rebodied straight up even though it was registered and insured as a cooper s. When prospective buyers came and looked at the car the first thing i reinforced to them was that it was not a genuine body. This car was sold to a buyer knowing full well what it is and he truly loved it and still loves it.

Let's hope the buyer of the ebay vehicle is completely aware and happy with their purchase and is not somehow accidently caught up in a situation like I was many years ago. And to the seller let's hope you are comfortable with the way you have described your ad as these thing can come back to bite you in this day and age if you don't dot your i's and cross your t's

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"Investing my Super in a Cooper" &
"Re-living my Surfing Past in a Woody"

Sheesh.. life's too short to argue any further.

I work in an area that closely examines such things, however I accept I am defeated by the weight of opinion of those who have posted since I dared to venture an opinion this afternoon.

Fair enough.

However, can I suggest that if you guys all see it as wrong, why not get the good folk at eBay to remove the listing and teach that recalictrant (in your view) seller a lesson?

Let's destroy his sale until he words it to the satisfaction of the brains trust here?

As it so happens I'll be selling a Mini Cooper S of some heritage value myself in the next few months. I'll await with interest to see how my listing (likely on car sales in a month or two) will be adjudged?

Cheers,

Davo

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1965 Mk1 Cooper S Sprint/Hillclimb/Rally Car
2012 Land Rover Defender 90

Providing its correctly described, you should have no issues!

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Hear hear. Let it be said, as difficult as it may seem (even if a car is genuine in your eyes) put forth the full history, as you know it.

And always list any doubts you have, so people can come see it and judge for themselves.

Also, here's something to chew on, if you rebody a deluxe using a cooper s shell is it still a Cooper s? or a deluxe? Does the value and heritage only change when a cooper s is rebodied?

Apparently they're busy...

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

I already reported it a few days ago



Its a cooper S, because that what the body is. So if i get an 850 body and put a moke motor (by the number), wheels, dash, moke seats, and a bumper bar etc does that make the 850 now a moke I dont think so.

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These threads always descend into nonsensical rivet counting pretty quickly.

I could have all the money in the world and I wouldn't want a Cooper S - then I'd have to deal with this crap and the sort of people who care about it.

I've got two Mk2 Ss at home, neither of which would be identified by 'casual' observers.

One is an early '69 no ID or compliance plate car that has been whacked in the front at some stage. The front apron was replaced with a non S unit when it was repaired. I'm constantly told by 'experts' that it's not an S.
The other car is early '70 but the compliance plate was taken off for an 80's era paint job (it was quite literally ripped off - the rivets and corners of the plate are still there). In addition it has no numbers/letters on the rad cowl at all. It has never been in an accident and it all original metal - the numbers were just never stamped. Again, experts tell me it's not an S.
For me, I don't care - I know both cars are genuine and that's what matters. About the only sad part is that you eventually stop taking them to shows etc due to all the criticism you cop - much like many Phase 3 GTHO owners. So be it.

As an aside, I know of two 'high profile' Ss here in Perth that are absolutely not genuine - one is a late burstproof door Mini K that's been tarted up to look right. . .other than the wrong compliance plate. The other has been faked extremely well but is a Deluxe shell with all the right bits and numbers. The only reason I know for sure it's a fake is because I watched a previous owner do the 'faking'. . .he had an irretrievably rusty S and a good Deluxe shell and created what I would say is just about a perfect copy.
In both cases, it's a moot point as I doubt either owner will be selling them on anyway.

I think it really should come down to buyer beware. . .if you're going to invest that much money into a supposedly genuine S and it's originality concerns you that much, do your research. Most of the fakes are pretty easy to spot with a bit of background info into what should and shouldn't be.

Regardless of make or model.
Any marque has its passionate fans who want to stop others being ripped off by shonks.
The bottom line with rebodying is that a shell that has been stamped with an id will always keep that id regardless of running gear.
Unless the shell is replaced with a new reissued shell from the company it is illegal to present a reshelled vehicle with anything but the pre existing id.
I have enough parts to build a complete Cooper s in my shed but unless i put the parts into an S shell it wouldn't be an S. Nor would I try to pass it off as one.
If you took an old written off Cooper S compliance plate could you get the factory to reissue a heritage shell.
In england it seems to be allowed.
This would make alot of the dodgey home reshelled cars seem a bit more viable if you could order a new replacement shell id'ed to return to original.
Cheers Rob.
End rant hopefully without salting any wounds or insult.

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82 BJ42 just completed resto
64 850 Modified(about to start rebuild)