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Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=102316		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  68+86auto [ Sat May 25, 2024 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
I've always been wanting to fix this matics's hydro. It has been refilled multiple times by a "mini professional" who as I expected had not used sufficient pressure. Two spacers were used on both sides at the front and it turned out the pressure was 150psi. I wonder why it was always low. Anyway in order to fix it I needed a hydro pump, I already had an idea of how I could make a neat one.

The key part is a four way refrigeration manifold, of course I don't want to contaminate my good one so a China special is used. This allows for individual valves for refill, vacuum and valves to be used for each side of the suspension - fancy. Refrigeration fittings also allow for easy bleeding of air in the lines - perfect. The pump can be whatever you choose as long as it has a valve to return the fluid to the tank, I used a Chinese clone of a Rothenberger RP50. I would like to enclose the fluid reservoir but I'll probably resort to storing it in a plastic box.

Attachment:
pump.jpg


The gauges have different ranges but are both perfectly useable on the hydro pressures.
Attachment:
manifold.jpg


The Schrader fittings are available in a flare fitting that should fit the refrigeration hoses however the 1/8npt version is easier to get and I already had one so I used an adaptor.

Attachment:
fittings.jpg


For the vacuum side I simply used my brake bleeder held against the manifold fitting however I will order a pneumatic vacuum pump. I don't wish to contaminate the oil in an electric vacuum pump.

Attachment:
image_2024-05-25_233901224.png



Finally after 5+ years I was given the chance to fix this hydro system so now it is at the correct factory ride height.

Attachment:
mini.jpg


Attachment:
pressures.jpg
Author:  Bill B [ Sun May 26, 2024 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
Well done! The original pumps have long-since ceased production so it's good to see some ingenuity.
As a fan of hydrolastic, it's good to see innovative approaches using existing technology to keep cars on the road.

Was wondering where a vacuum pump would fit into your setup and whether there is a 'no-loss' capability? Or is that built into the manifold?

Is it worth putting together a detailed description of your system, with part numbers, for others to copy in the future?

At correct ride-height and pressure you should notice a much better ride/handling combination; a bit lower ride height and it is even better.
Author:  gtogreen1969 [ Sun May 26, 2024 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
Check your rear bump stops. At 150psi it was probably sitting on them and they might be a bit chewed up
Author:  68+86auto [ Sun May 26, 2024 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
gtogreen1969 wrote:
Check your rear bump stops. At 150psi it was probably sitting on them and they might be a bit chewed up


Will do, I hadn't thought about them. I have to inspect the rear suspension still for another issue.
Author:  68+86auto [ Sun May 26, 2024 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
Bill B wrote:
Well done! The original pumps have long-since ceased production so it's good to see some ingenuity.
As a fan of hydrolastic, it's good to see innovative approaches using existing technology to keep cars on the road.

Was wondering where a vacuum pump would fit into your setup and whether there is a 'no-loss' capability? Or is that built into the manifold?

Is it worth putting together a detailed description of your system, with part numbers, for others to copy in the future?

At correct ride-height and pressure you should notice a much better ride/handling combination; a bit lower ride height and it is even better.


There is an excellent no-loss capability. Far better than the factory pump where it is a separate hose. There is a dedicated vacuum pump fitting and the "VAC" valve isolates this from the system. It is designed so that when working on a refrigeration system minimal air is introduced. As well as the fitting being able to be hand loosened for bleeding there is also a dedicated valve core which can be depressed for the pump side. Simply press it and pump until fluid comes out.

It is of course optional to be able to connect both sides of the suspension at once but is convenient and reduces the entry of air. I used a four way manifold so that there is a dedicated hose and valve for everything. a cheaper three way manifold could be used however you would have to use one of the gauge ports for vac/refill and have only one output hose or lose some of the benefits. These four way manifolds aren't much more expensive though.

Here's a diagram I just made which should explain it.

Attachment:
hydro pump.jpg


I was thinking of adding some instructions at least, I will also add some details of what I purchased.

Here's the main components purchased:
Manifold:
Attachment:
image_2024-05-26_222232044.png


Vacuum pump:

Hand operated pumps etc could be used too but would need adaptors, easier to just get one of these pneumatic ones. They are rubbish for actual aircon work but are fine for this purpose.

Attachment:
image_2024-05-26_222258660.png


Pressure pump:

Any other pump can also be used.

Typical cheap stuff, listed as 1/4 but was 1/2 bsp.
Attachment:
image_2024-05-26_222407632.png


Schrader Coupling:

One of mine is one of the ones from Airtec and is far better quality. This cheap one I had to file it to allow proper flow. If you can find one with the JIC 37° 7/16-20 UNF male thread then I think it will fit directly to the aircon hoses without an adaptor. I already had one 1/8 npt one so I bought some adaptors.
Attachment:
image_2024-05-26_222514663.png

Attachment:
image_2024-05-26_223044453.png



Fittings will also be needed to connect the pump to the aircon hose. That means 1/2 BSP to 1/4 flare. I already had these fittings lying around.



Instructions I will recheck these tomorrow for errors.

Valve "V1" on the RP50 pump can be permanently left open.

To depressurize:
- close VAC valve on manifold
- Connect service fitting/s to vehicle.
- Screw in core depressor/s
- open associated service valve/s on manifold
- open REF valve on manifold
- open V2 on pump
the pressure will drain to the pump reservoir. If you want to dispose of the old fluid you could remove the hose from the pump first and use a bottle.

To evacuate/vacuum and refill
- close REF and VAC valves on manifold
- close V2 on pump
- ensure there is no pressure in pump for safety (release pressure via V2 if needed)
- depress bleed valve on manifold (remove cap). If there is no bleed valve on your manifold loosen the hose.
- gently pump until fluid comes out and then release the bleed valve. The pump side is now free of air.
- Connect service fitting/s to vehicle.
- Screw in core depressor/s
- ensure there is no/low pressure shown on gauges
- close REF valve on manifold
- start vacuum pump
- open VAC valve on manifold only slightly. See following reply
- open applicable service valve/s on manifold
- run vacuum until gauge/s reach desired reading
- close VAC valve on manifold
- stop vacuum pump
- open REF valve on manifold. Fluid will now be drawn into the system.
- pump slowly to desired pressure. Individual service valves can be closed to only increase one side, I would start with both open if both sides are empty.

Increasing pressure when the service fittings have been disconnected
- close REF and VAC valves on manifold
- close V2 on pump
- ensure there is no pressure in pump for safety (release pressure via V2 if needed)
- depress bleed valve on manifold (remove cap). If there is no bleed valve on your manifold loosen the hose.
- gently pump until fluid comes out and then release the bleed valve. The pump side is now free of air.
- Connect service fitting/s to vehicle.
- loosen hose/s on service fittings
- open REF and service valve/s on manifold
- pump until fluid comes out of loose connection/s and tighten.
There is now minimal air in the hoses except for the amount in the coupler.
- Screw in core depressor/s
- pump up to desired pressure.

Disconnecting from vehicle
This procedure is to ensure you don't get sprayed with high pressure fluid.
- Screw out core depressor/s
- open REF and service valve/s on manifold
- open V2 on pump.
Author:  68+86auto [ Mon May 27, 2024 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ultimate (Chinese) hydro pump setup
There is one little annoyance with the Schrader fittings on the car, specifically the valve cores. They are quite restrictive. The RP50 pump is capable of flowing far more than the fittings can. This means that when pumping the pressure builds up between the pump and coupler then slowly enters the suspension system. This occurs even if the coupler is fitted directly to the pump. When you pump the pressure builds up and sprays out at a highish pressure. The cheaper fitting was horrible so I had to file it for better flow. After some more thought, the valve core is actually the most restrictive part.

This issue exists without the manifold, it is simply to do with the pump. It just means you need to be aware of it when you see the pressure going up high quickly. As soon as you stop pumping it flows into the system.

Where it is a bit more of an issue is when trying to pull a vacuum. Think about trying to flow what is effectively 14psi through a tiny hole, there won't be much flow before a restriction occurs. This restriction causes the gauges to show a full vacuum however the suspension is not at the same level. When the VAC valve is closed the vacuum will equalise. Only opening the VAC valve slightly may make the gauges show a more accurate reading. I hadn't fully worked it out until now so I didn't test it, this explains why the original pumps say to vacuum SLOWLY. Maybe a hand pump is better after all.

Again, these issues are the same whether a refrigeration manifold is used or not. I've seen others say about using a full on electric vacuum pump with no mention of this issue, they probably just never realised.
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