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Testimonial - 4pot calipers vs. Standard S calipers
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22151		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  willy [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Testimonial - 4pot calipers vs. Standard S calipers
Alright.
A lot of you may know that I have 'bling' 4-pot alloy 'Mini Spares' 7.5" calipers on my Rover.
At the time, I thought I couldn't go wrong with buying them.
Surely they would be a lot better over standard brakes.
I was wrong.

Firstly, the pedal.
It would never come up.
It was always at least half way down.
People I have spoken to with KAD brakes have this problem also.
I have the correct wheel cylinders fitted, we have changed master cylinders, the booster has been changed. None of these fixed the problems.

Secondly, the modification of pads.
How dodgey is this.
I had an engineer inspect the brakes and although he said the calipers appeared to be fine, the modification of brake pads was not at all to his approval.
The pads hang over the outside of the rotor, so theoretically when the pads wear down, the two pads will come together (as they will form a 'lip') and the rotor will keep spinning around in between them and therefore offering no braking.

Thirdly, the design of the calipers.
Not only does the design prohibit fitting of 'off-the-shelf' pads, it also has a quite major flaw in its construction.
As the car is raised up, the tierod bar physically hits the edge of the caliper. I had noticed a small worn part on the construction of the caliper while doing some maintenance underneath the car and wasn't sure if this was through normal driving or from having the car on a jack.
When the car is jacked up, the caliper actually rests on the tie rod and stops the wheel from drooping any further.

Fourthly, the efficiency.
From fitting the S calipers very recently, the pedal is absolutely awesome.
I cannot believe how much difference there is. I put the foot on the brake and I am lunged forwards because of its efficiency.
With the 4-pots they did not offer a 'fast stop'.
The S brakes are a lot 'touchier' than the 4pots, and I am a fan.
It could be because the pedal is higher with the S calipers, but I am not sure as we were never able to get a proper pedal with the 4-pots.



So they are my views on the 4pot alloy calipers.
Author:  Shard [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Did you just sell them 5 mins ago or something? :).

Shard
Author:  mickmini [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
well i hope you gave appropriate cash compensation to whomever you swapped them with :lol:
Author:  willy [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh and


Fifthly, the clearance issues.
With my 10" Minator wheels, stickon weights do not clear the calipers.
The rim also prohibits 'knock-on' weights due to its design.
So I have never had balanced front wheels on the Mini.
I will get them balanced tomorrow.


Mick... berry funny :lol:

Shard... yesterday. The new owner of the calipers is aware of their flaws.
I'm not out here to sell of dodgey things... but some people are... Or I would never have bought the calipers. :wink:
Author:  68matic [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
willy wrote:
The new owner of the calipers is aware of their flaws.
I'm not out here to sell of dodgey things... but some people are... Or I would never have bought the calipers. :wink:


ah ha ha. sucker. best $800 i ever made.
Author:  DRB33N [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are your ones the KAD 4 pots ?
Author:  willy [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Testimonial - 4pot calipers vs. Standard S calipers
I wrote:
A lot of you may know that I have 'bling' 4-pot alloy 'Mini Spares' 7.5" calipers on my Rover.
Author:  Lillee [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just changed my standard S discs setup today to brand new S disc rotors and EBC black stuff pads. I dunno why anyone would want anything better than this setup for road warrior use... I am more than confident that this setup will be more than enough to handle my 1330 ~100hp car...
Author:  h0nk [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
haha you idiot duk!! :lol:

S discs are awsome, stop no worries, I prefer them without a booster aswell. I've driven a mates 1400 stroker clubby with 4 pot calipers, these things were bloody sensitive though! Much more responsive then my standard S discs.
Author:  JC [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lillee wrote:
I dunno why anyone would want anything better than this setup for road warrior use.....


Because you are limited to 'road warrior' use. S discs aren't crud, they just aren't capable of the same braking force and longevity of the metro set ups.
Author:  meeni [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
umm, you can buy pads for 4 pot callipers, minisport uk sell them.
Author:  willy [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not 7.5.
They have to be modified.
Trust me, I know.
Author:  Mokesta [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't get confused between the 4-pot calipers for 7.9" brakes and those for 8.4" brakes. The 4-pot callipers for the large brakes use the stock metro pistons, seals, pads, pad retaining pins and spring plates. There is no pad "overhang" issue with these larger brakes.

The lack of "feel" can be explained by the difference in rigidity in the aluminium vs steel calipers. Aluminium is more flexible than steel for the same amount of metal. So, if they are not designed to maximise reigidity, they flex apart when they are pushing the pads together. This means that some pedal travel is used just to bend the calipers and that makes the pedal appear spongy, giving the driver little confidence.

Well designed calipers don't have to flex and can still be a lot lighter than the steel stock ones, but apparently willy's ones aren't too well designed.

I've got Mini Spares 8.4" vented alloy 4-pot brakes on one car and stock iron Metro vented 4-pot on another. The iron callipers do have much better feel but are 3x the weight.

In F1, there is now a limit on the material that calipers can be made from after teams were spending a fortune to make calipers out of metal matrix composites which were lighter than aluminium but stiffer than steel. They were going to that expense to give the driver's more pedal feel so they would be confident to push harder, not for the ultimate braking ability.
Author:  Lillee [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
striped 63 wrote:
Lillee wrote:
I dunno why anyone would want anything better than this setup for road warrior use.....


Because you are limited to 'road warrior' use. S discs aren't crud, they just aren't capable of the same braking force and longevity of the metro set ups.


For 10 inch wheels? We are talking 10 inch right?
Author:  Spaceboy [ Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
i dont like unassisted discs at all
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