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Over-Diagnosed Leyland Mini that suddenly wn't start...
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Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Over-Diagnosed Leyland Mini that suddenly wn't start...
Hey guys,

I bought my Clubman about 6 months ago (1976 998cc) and it started first time every time until about 6 weeks ago - needed jumpers to get started so I bought a new battery and ran it in. It still needed jumpers to start however, so I endured this for a while (jumpstarting each time) until I got sick of it and parked it in the garage for a while and forgot about it...

Went to kick it over the other day and nothing - even with jumpers. Put a fresh battery in from my other car (that I knew for sure was charged and working) and still nothing.

So it ain't the battery...

But now I can't even clutch-start it... When I turn the key I can hear the starter trying to go, but just kind of ticking over and holding a low buzzing noise while the key is turned... I tapped the solenoid a few times (was told sometimes the solenoid loosens and just needs a bit of a tap) but nothing. I know that ain't much to go on but was curious if anyone had a similar experience, or could possibly think of something else it could be??

It kind of sounds like the engine is seizing, but I can turn it manually without a problem... I should mention that the guy I bought it off was a "mechanic" - so he told me anyway, but I'm yet to see the proof. Spark plugs were screwed in so tight I nearly snapped my tool getting them out, and he wired in a CD head unit very shoddy and I believe that is what drained the battery. Currently the new battery is still flat so I will charge it up tonight.

I got a mobile mechanic out to have a look the other day, but first he wanted to charge me $300 for a new battery, then $500 for a new starter!!

I suspected the starter when this all started happening (have quote for a reconditioned starter for $220) but can't be sure now as so many people have offered different opinions...

Would really appreciate any advice, Thanks!!
Author:  FatMaserati [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
A reconditioned starter shouldn't cost you that much. What I would do though, is buy a pre-engaged starter off a Gemini (ask your local Mini guy and he should be able to tell you the correct model). They start much better than the original ones, and it means you don't even need the starter solenoid (built into the Gemini one, I think). A brand new Gemini starter cost me $160.

HOWEVER, I can't tell you 100% for sure if it's the starter or not thats causing you the problems. The low buzzing sound you are getting makes me suspect dodgy starter motor, which does kill the solenoid in the end anyway.

BTW, where abouts are you?
Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Appreciate that - Actually I remember another guy recommending the Gemini starter a while back... Wasn't aware it was a better option than the original.

I'm in Castle Hill Sydney, why??
Author:  Spaceboy [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
just sounds like your solenoid, try push/roll starting it
Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tried that - no go...
Author:  Shard [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it's your solenoid can't you just screwdriver bypass it to test?

Shard
Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Can you give a quick step-by-step how to do that?? Have only heard it can be done but never tried...
Author:  Spaceboy [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
if it wont roll start, then you need to look at your electrics, and see if you're getting spark to all your cyls,
Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I replaced all 4 spark plugs about 2 weeks before the first starting problem - so perhaps a new set of leads is the first step then??
Author:  Mick [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it isn't your battery,
and YOU HAVECHECKED THE BATTERY CONNECTIONS IN THE BOOT AND AT THE SOLENOID :?: ( they must be nice and tight, the contact area clean and neat)
then there is two more things to test. and if it is one of them it will cost you 25 dollars at the most.



To test the solenoid:
Ask a beautiful assistant to hold the key in the start position. Explain that it isn't important that she knows why she is doing this, and that you are aware that she has things to do and that yes you are sorry for the inconvenience. With a multimeter or a tester of some sort check for twelve volts on the side of the soleoid where the battery lead connects, and then on the other. With the ignition switch on you should get 12 volts on both sides if the solenoid is fine. If not, then a new solenoid is available and should cost 25 dollars at supercrap.

If the solenoid is fine, then what is happening is that the brushes in the starter motor are worn out and need replacing.

To Fix:(There are two types of starter motor, early ones pre 65ish and everythjing after that, I'll presume you have the late type as these are very common )
Remove starter from engine after disconnecting battery.
Remove end plate off starter, 4 small hex headed screws. Slide off end of starter motor.
Take plate to Auto sparky and ask for new brushes (I paid $17.40 for all four just last week)
Before you put it back together, tak a piece of fine sandpaper (not too important which grade) and lightly sand the surface where the brushes will contact on the starter motor. You can miss this step if you want, it's just nice to do.
Reasssemble.
Author:  dannyrus [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great stuff, will do that one. Thanks very much guys, will post my results...
Author:  Spaceboy [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
the starter motor doesnt need to work to roll start it.
if it roll starts and drives ok then its your solenoid or starter
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Most important...

Find what is wrong before you start to pull things apart.
Don't buy new plug leeds until you can start the car. (you may hook them up wrong and it will never start!)
Don't buy a Gemini starter until you know that your starter is not working. (You need to know if the starter is not working because of lack of power or if the starter is in fact stuffed!)

If you start replacing things it will just confuse the issue.

Charge the battery.
Check (and clean) the battery terminals.
Check the earth lead connection in the boot.
Check the battery cable on the solenoid.

If the car won't start unhook the battery before it goes flat again. :wink:
Author:  9YaTaH [ Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  head for tha
dannyrus wrote:
Appreciate that - Actually I remember another guy recommending the Gemini starter a while back... Wasn't aware it was a better option than the original.

I'm in Castle Hill Sydney, why??


Not another bloody Mini from the Hills:!: ...this is getting beyond a joke :lol:
Author:  Mini Mad [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Clean your earth's like people have said, where the -ve battery lead connects to the boot floor and the strap from the body to the engine.
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