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Disc brake hubs
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2373		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Christoph [ Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Disc brake hubs
Ive finally installed my cooper s brake setup with everything new bar the hubs and cv's. Everything works well and i drove 150kms today. Thisevening i took it for a drive up one of the local hills and 5 kms from home i get this whurring/squealing sound front passenger side. After pulling over and driving off again the sound stops, change into 3rd gear and the sound starts again (60-70km/h) pull over again. The sound it related to road speed and it isnt coming from the pads (i braked hard and no change) LHS D/S feels warmer than RHS... All i can think of is the wheel bearing. The wheel bearings however are new and ive done the DS nuts up properly etc and packed the bearings with HTB. I did note that the inner side outer race did go in easier on one of the hubs but cannot recall which hub it was on. I couldnt get the outer race to rotate however when installed in that hub. It seems to me that the outer race is spinning. anyone got any other ideas?
If it is the outer race thats being a b*tch im pretty sure i will have to buy a new hub- there are no ways of fixing them are there? Is it possible to get my hands on a second hand one in good nick and if not how much would i expect to pay for a new disc hub?

thanks, chris
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:25 am ]
Post subject: 
If the outer ring is just loose, yes you can retain it with Loctite 601 or similar.

But, look at the web in the middle, between the bearings- if it's scored or worn you have a problem.
If the web is worn, the drive flange and CV will rock about even with the big nut torqued up.
Then the bearing spacer needs surface grinding to restore the bearing preload. PM me if this is the problem.

It's possible to remachine the web if worn uneven, and shim it (I've done it once) but getting another hub is easier.
NFI of cost... :roll:
Author:  Christoph [ Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
No the faces of the web (thats the built in spacer thingo thats the outer races sit on right?) were fine. So all i need is loctite 601 phewf. New hubs seem to be around the 60 pound mark so i hope not to need them!
Author:  9YaTaH [ Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Motorkhana
Christoph wrote:
No the faces of the web (thats the built in spacer thingo thats the outer races sit on right?) were fine. So all i need is loctite 601 phewf. New hubs seem to be around the 60 pound mark so i hope not to need them!


Hi Chris, the hub problems explain why I didn't see you out at the 'khana.

Man there was one (1) mini there - but - a good to watch Mini at that!! lots of wheelspin and tyre smoke :arrow: ...Mick
Author:  Anto [ Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Christoph wrote:
No the faces of the web (thats the built in spacer thingo thats the outer races sit on right?) were fine. So all i need is loctite 601 phewf. New hubs seem to be around the 60 pound mark so i hope not to need them!


I hear araldite does the job :lol:

Anto.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Anto wrote:
Christoph wrote:
No the faces of the web (thats the built in spacer thingo thats the outer races sit on right?) were fine. So all i need is loctite 601 phewf. New hubs seem to be around the 60 pound mark so i hope not to need them!


I hear araldite does the job :lol:

Anto.

Yeah but it takes forever to go hard, and the 5 min stuff lasts 5 mins.. :x
Loctite 609 is good, it's designed for that- I used to use it on centre bearings of Formula Vees... 8)
Author:  Christoph [ Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yesturday i went and bought some 609- its good stuff, the drift got stuck to the bench after i drifted the races back in. I think the web maybe warn as i did the nut up BFT and still movement present. Also is it possible to just grind the spacer down (acurately ofcourse) as the web is only slightly worn but enough to stop the bearing coming together properly. The actual face of the web is nice and smooth, just the corners are slighlty rounded (same raduis as the outer ofcourse). More importantly, does anyone know how wide the web/built in spacer thing is meant to be?
Author:  drmini in aust [ Thu Oct 21, 2004 6:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Here's how I do it:
Assemble it with the new spacer and torque the big nut up.
Set a dial gauge up on the end of the C/V shaft.
Push/pull it in and out to get a reading of the endfloat.
Undo the nut, pull the outer bearing out, get the spacer, and surface grind it an amount = (endfloat+ .002") but no more... :wink:
This will give it .001-.002" preload when assembled.
It MUST be flat- don't try and grind it by hand... :cry:

I did mine 70,000 miles ago like this, and still good. Yes I know I should pull 'em out and grease them by now... :oops:
Author:  miniron [ Thu Oct 21, 2004 10:04 am ]
Post subject: 
:?: You did buy the bearing kit didn't you? You can't just buy 2 new individual bearings and expect them to fit as there is no provision for any adjustment in the design. The kit contains 2 bearings and an individually ground spacer to give the correct preload. They cost $$$$ compared to buying the bearings separately. Also worn tapered collars and drive flanges can cause endfloat.
Kevin's method is fine if you have endfloat and the ability to accurately measure and grind the old spacer. If you don't have any endfloat and use the old spacer you don't know what the preload is. Too much preload equals a short life for the bearings. The nut should be torqued up to 150 lb/ft (not just 60 lb/ft as per non 'S' disc or drum setups) and tightened even further to the next split pin hole.
The same situation regarding the spacer applies for 'S' rear wheel tapered bearings. They come in a kit as well but just torque them up to the same setting (60 lb/ft ) as non tapered rear wheel bearings. Don't forget the LH rear hub nut has a LH thread. How did I find out many moons ago?

Regards
RonR
Author:  Christoph [ Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes brand spanking new bearing kits and they do burn holes in your pocket. Ive discussed the problem with my grandfather and we came up with the exact same method as kevin suggested, the only difference being we werent sure how much preload was required. The tapered split washer is there to provide the preload isnt it?
Author:  drmini in aust [ Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
No- the tapered split washer is there to centre the drive flange, which has pretty short splines. This of course assumes you have S brakes- drum brake Minis (different drive flange setup) have a thick flat washer instead.

The 2 things that control the preload are- the thickness of the centre web in the swivel hub, and the thickness of the spacer. Nothing else. :wink:

<EDIT> Wear of the web reduces the preload. It is unlikely you will ever have too much preload with stock parts, unless you have mixed the spacers up.
Author:  miniron [ Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:38 am ]
Post subject: 
What Kevin says is correct but the tapered split collar also holds the drive flange against the inner race of the outer bearing and applies the preload to the bearing assembly.
If the tapered split collar and drive flange are badly worn it is possible for the collar to bottom on the CV joint splines and prevent the assembly being held together correctly. Even though you torque the nut up to 150lb/ft the assembly can still be loose as the collar is seating against the CV joint splines and not the drive flange.
All disc brake Minis use the same hub irrespective of the bearing, cv joint and drive flange arrangement. If you need to replace a hub sourcing a replacement either new or S/H should be easy but not necessarily cheap.

Regards
RonR
Author:  Christoph [ Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wouldnt it have some springing effect as the gap closes up as its tightened and it sits on a conical seat? i guess unless lubricated the taper would lock it inplace anyhow. Anyway enough of me thinking out loud. Today we fixed the LH hub bearing. Bolted a piece of plate to the steering arm and used it for the magnetic base on the dial guage gear. We first set the dial guage up on the disc and got readings of 0.29mm maximum end float. I wasnt convinced about the dial gauge setup because the disc also tilted side to side. We managed to set it up on the end of the DS and got an average reading of 0.125mm- would have had a bit too much preload if the measurement off the disc was used :oops:. 4 4/5 thou in the proper measurements. added two thou and machined a spacer to nominal size. reassembled it, drove around the block, checked for end float. None present in that wheel but i could audibly hear the end float on the driver side hub :oops: :evil: - another day. I did measure the end float however. 0.14 mm (metric dial gauge) or 0.0055". Sounds like nothing to the average Joe Blogs but sh*t it means a lot of movement.
Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated.
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