hello all,

I have come across some problems with steering and brakes in the morris mini deluxe ('65) that has prevented the car from being registered here in NSW (everything else checks out fine, so we are pretty keen to get these two issues sorted).

to be more specific, the brakes are just really pretty poor, and i have noticed that braking at any appreciable speed will result in the car veering towards the right. Can anyone give me any pointers as to what i should check first? I plan to get the car up on jack stands and just go at the brake system and see if there are any immediately apparent problems.

also, the steering is very poor. its extremely loose (the steering wheel can be moved alot in either direction before anything happens, and also there seems to be alot of play in the entire steering column: it feels like turning hard left or right will move something that isnt supposed to move).

anyway, i'm sure these descriptions are too vague for any real answers, but if any of you could give me some pointers on what to check first, that would be really great.

also, i would much appreciate some kind of exploded diagram of either the steering or the brake system in this mini, if anyone has some scans or pics on their computer could they please post them up.

cheers!

Brake wise, check that the wheel cylinders aren't leaking. When ya get the drums off, move the dust cover back from the cylinder and see if there is any moisture.

Do you know how old the shoes are?

If everything there is correct, they will just need adjustment.

Steering wise, check that the 4 bolts on the floor inside the cabin that hold the steering rack are tight. Also the clamp at the bottom of the steering column. Check things like ball joints etc when you are checking the brakes.

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Unfortunately they are the most important systems in any car . The brakes would most likely do with an overhaul (new wheel cylinders and flexible hoses at the least) , if it's pulling to the right side it could be because the left side isn't working as well or at all , or it's just badly out of adjustment , but most likely wheel cylinders are failing in some way .
Steering is best fixed by getting an exchange rack from a reputable mechanic/steering specialist , not worth the risk doing your own steering rack . That's if the problem is in the rack . Is the steering column slipping on the pinion of the steering rack ? The movement in the column itself is fixed by replacing the bushes in it , or just getting another column from a wrecker or someone on here .

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no i dont, the car was purchased a couple of weeks ago and we are just getting an understanding of what needs work.



what does adjustment of the brakes involve? on my valiants (9" duo-servo drums), i need to remove the dust cover and turn the star wheel (part of the adjusting screw) while rotating the wheel slightly (car is jacked up). then i stop turning the wheel when slight resistance is felt in the rotating wheel (and back off the star wheel about a 1/4 turn to avoid brake drag during normal travel). does this sound like the same process for the mini's drums? I'm sure i'll be able to get through it, but any specific pointers are always appreciated.

where can i get replacement cylinders? i would also like to replace the flex-hoses, does anyone make some specifically for this morris mini? i'm sure wherever supplies the cylinders can also supply the shoes if so needed.

thanks poeee, i will check the mounting bracket and the clamp you mention at the steering column. is there anything else i can check prior to addressing the rack and pinion itself?



once again, where can i find an exchange rack in the sydney area? is there any nationwide mail-order parts supplier of mini gear that i could get wallet-friendly with, or am i restricted to wreckers?



i can't tell, is there some way to make sure, or is this sort of thing understood when you have the old rack on the bench and you are staring it at going "oh geez, thats why"?



where are these bushings located, and where can i find replacements?

once again, thanks so much for your help so far guys, its much appreciated.

Cheers

if you have been driving the car then you can tell which wheel has the brake problem from touching it and felling which one is the least warm. it is probably a bad idea to drive it in the condition it is in though and illegal if it isn't regoed.

the brakes pulling could also be due to a blocked brake hose. also you may find that if you are bleeding the brakes they don't bleed up very well. have a search on here because i started a thread before about this problem and got the help i needed to fix it. otherwise pm me or something and i will try to find it for you.

For mini parts suppliers see this thread:

http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10543

i can't help with the steering because i haven't worked on mine at all

check you wheel cylinders for leakage (its pretty obvious if they are leaking) then check your flexible hoses for any abnormalities and change if required. then adjust your shoes like so --> http://drcwww.kub.nl/~bogaard/manual/routine/11.htm and then bleed the brakes like so --> http://drcwww.kub.nl/~bogaard/manual/brakes/15.htm

i dont know much about the steering unit actualities but do as mentioned and check the mounts in the cabin as well as the ubolts in the engine bay. also check the tie rod ends. here is some info that might help --> http://drcwww.kub.nl/~bogaard/manual/steering/steering.htm

let us know how you go
dave

hey guys,

I've pretty much got the front brakes sorted (everything up until adjustments) but I sort of forgot where this little spring goes All i remember is that it has something to do with the cylinders. can any of you help me out and describe where it goes?



another problem I have encountered is with the rear brakes. I have replaced the shoes on the rear (the cylinders seem fine to me, its all just a bit dusty theres no real issues i can see so I'm going to re-use the cylinders and the hoses) but I have found that after putting on the new shoes and going to put the drum back on, it wont fit! the drum wont fit well onto either wheel. At first i thought it was something weird going on with the hand brake, but I have made sure its released all the way. can anyone let me know what I am supposed to do? Is it just as simple as winding back the adjusters to get the new drums back on, and then adjusting to suit the new pads??

Other issues I now have are with the shock absorbers (I'm replacing them while I'm at it). It's a very dumb sounding question, but after looking over the shocks at the front and rear its not that obvious to me how to remove the things. can anyone let me know what may be involved?

once I have sorted the tie rods, shocks, and these rear brakes I will hop onto the replacement steering rack, so I may have more questions yet

thanks again guys, this forum rocks.

Cheers

Remember you have to back off the adjustment on the rear drums so that the drum will fit over the new shoes. If your steering rack is caput your best off getting a new one, they are not that expensive (cheaper than a reco one I think)

Is that the complete spring your holding in your hand? Front brake springs are usually long with a spring at each end (like the one attached to your brakes in the pic)

That spring is a retainer off the drums isn't it? Should be a lot longer it looks like it might have snapped (?) I can't remember a spring setup on my cylinder but I changed it a year or so ago.

As for the rear drum cover not going on yeah if you've just fit new shoes on they probably have a lot more tread then the old ones so wind down the adjuster (have a look while you do it and you'll see what's happening) until there's enough clearance for the cover to slip on.

I haven't had to get the front shocks out yet, but for the rear ones, there's a nut on the bottom near or on the trailing arm, and then another nut in the boot (it might be under a rubber cap sitting on the wheel arch. On the passenger side it's located behind the fuel tank so you'll have to get that out of the way to get to it.

Shard

ahh gotcha, i thought it would be something like this, but I just wanted to check first. The rear left drum was exceptionally hard to get off as well, so I'm pretty sure this will have contributed to the poor braking that i mentioned at the beginning of this post (I did also find that the driver's side flex hose was in pretty poor condition too... so its going to stop much better i think).



well there are four springs in the front brakes: two of the long ones (with hooks at each end) which secure the shoes to the cylinders. I have them fitted and installed fine. Then there are these two more springs per brake assembly, and they are what I am holding in my hand there. What I do remember is that the hook part of the spring slots into the round hole near the cylinder; you can make out the hole in the pic. but I dont remember where they go (where they press against at the other end, or if they are supposed to be at 10 oclock and 4 oclock or at 2 ocklock and 8 oclock - if you know what i mean) or even what they do



what a bummer!

cheers guys, i'll look forward to hearing more about shocks removal.

You are doing all this work and yet you are not replacing all the hoses?
They may look OK on the outside but what does the inside of the hose look like?
You are going to reuse the rear cylinders but are the rubbers OK?

You are spending money on shocks but only doing half a job on the brakes.

A prime cause of veering to the right or left under brakes in old Minis is the brake hoses, particularly the fronts. When they get old, they swell and close up. The veering is caused by one working normally and not the other. This may happen only when cold, or all the time.
Unless the hoses are recent, I'd bin all 4.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

What they said ^^^^^^^^^^

This little spring is a retainer for the end of the brake shoe into the end of the wheel cylinder....if you carefully rotate the slotted end of the wheel cylinder you should see a hole drilled in it where the hook of the spring locates....the spring itself should be around the back of the shoe and located itself by the hole you see in the shoe.

BUT....you MUST sort out that steering immediately....you can get away with brake problems but if your steering fails you could totally lose your steering and end in a world of hurt.

With the front wheels in the dead ahead position....Put a finger or two on top of the steering wheel by reaching through the open drivers window....gently push the wheel until resistance is felt. Check to see what the wheels are doing at the same time. If the wheels have just started to move....then put a mark in space and proceed to push the steering wheel the other way until resistance or wheel movement is felt/observed. If you observe much more than a few centimetres (say 3 max) of movement then the rack and pinion could be in a dangerous state.....if so ....Get an exchange or new unit put in as soon as possible.

Another very dangerous part of the Mini steering system is where the column is clamped over splines near the floor.....again...if there is movement in this area...it can be a killer

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"Show me the Mini!"

hey guys, thanks for your help so far:



I have already replaced the front hoses. The rear hoses I have not yet decided to replace but I guess I could do them at the same time too, I'll have to make another trip to buy them and they aren't very expensive so I will do them too.



do you suggest i replace the rear cylinders as well, even though they seem fine? I guess I might as well.



AHUH! so thats what they do. I knew they had something to do with the cylinder and that hole in the shoe, but I couldn't remember what... and i was a bit flustered at the time of reassembly so I didn't want to give it much more time (i was hungry and it was getting cold, you know how it is). I'll hop onto that tomorrow, thanks so much.

Oh and one last question before I make some more progress tomorrow; can anyone run by me the process of adjusting the handbrake properly? I would only be doing this once the brakes are all done and bled, but any pointers for me to keep in mind and make my life a bit easier would be much appreciated.

cheers guys

Don't know if this is the correct method, but I've always made sure the rear brakes are adjusted properly first, then pulled the handbrake up three clicks and then adjust the handbrake adjusters so that the handbrake holds. And I would definitely be replacing the rear brake hoses too whilst your at it, they tend to be neglected even more than the front ones. Remember its a single circuit brake system, if any hydraulic component fails then you have no brakes.