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Painting - how smooth is too smooth
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Author:  minivanman [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Painting - how smooth is too smooth

I’m currently sanding down the paint on my mini (have been spraying it). I’m using 1200 WD paper. In a couple of areas the primer must have been high and I’ve got some tiny pinhead primer spots showing.

I’m using a standard acrylic paint, how smooth is too smooth to paint over?

I don’t want to spend too long with the 1200, if I then have to rough it up more with an 800 or similar.

I had a search but didn't have too much luck. Is there a how to paint section?

Cheers, Tom.

Ps: Yes Ian, I’m afraid of a slapping and have started work on it
:lol:

Author:  sports850 [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painting - how smooth is too smooth

minivanman wrote:
Ps: Yes Ian, I’m afraid of a slapping and have started work on it
:lol:


So you should be Tom :P

Author:  minivanman [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 

Do you have any sanding advice? I'm almost thinking, if it needs a few more coats, hit it with the 800. I'm sure I'll find a little more primer this way, but it should work.

Author:  sports850 [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:27 pm ]
Post subject: 

Not really , the mini's I've painted I've done so thick (strictly amateurish over enthusiasm ....) they didn't sand through . Are you still putting clear over the top of this ? If so the clear should seal it but there's still the little dots of primer that you'll know where they are even if others don't see them . Your call really .

Author:  slinkey inc [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

I'd go with just the 800. Luckily your doing acrylic so any mistake is easy to fix (sand back spray again). I did 1200 for the first few panels and found it gave no advantage over the 800 so i started using 800 again, the paint did stick with the 1200 though so please yourself. Be sure to post pics! I'd love to before and after shots.!!!

Author:  minivanman [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

To the 800! - It goes faster 8) , and should stick better.

It will have clear over the top. Just need some more advice or do some trials. If I smooth the paint down with 800, put some more colour on, light sand, then hopefully have a smooth finish and then clear. If the paint has that non reflective block finish (on the colour) - will the clear make it go shiny? (after the clear is buffed).

I'll take some pics then and start up in the members area

Author:  Mini Mike [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

if its a metalic use 1200 if just a normal solid colour use 800. I still use 1200 however.....

Mike

Author:  mad-mk1 [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:23 pm ]
Post subject: 

you may need a two pack bog which is really fine. or you could spray more primer on it and keep sanding. are you using a high fill primer? that might help.

also are you spraying metallic? if so the metal flake will "fall" into the pin holes and tehy will stand out like dogs balls.

Author:  minivanman [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

mad-mk1 wrote:
you may need a two pack bog which is really fine. or you could spray more primer on it and keep sanding. are you using a high fill primer? that might help.

also are you spraying metallic? if so the metal flake will "fall" into the pin holes and tehy will stand out like dogs balls.


First time at it and done it all backwards. It's acrylic. I primed the car with primer, then some high fill. I didn't sand it enough at this point it seems - then I put a few coats of colour on.

I'll get it all nice and smooth and hit it with some more colour. It's not metalic, but I was thinking of a metalic silver stripe or two. Now I have to put more on, it would be the time to, before the clear.

Author:  collins [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:08 pm ]
Post subject: 

What are you all saying, this is nucking futs....

PART 1
First off.... If you are not going bare metal, then all you need to do is key into your old paint with 240 wet and dry. Considering that you have masked your car 100%, prime your car using the best hi-fill spray primer you can afford, if you go for 2 pack, you will find it will have an isocyanate based catalyst, very toxic, and doesn't need to be breathed in to cause harm. I have been a painter for years, and I take very silly risks when I know I shouldn't.
Once the car is primed, get yourself a cheap polly spray in a contrast colour and lightly dust-coat the car using whichever colour you have chosen (I normally just use a cheap can of black).
At this stage, its time to have your lunch and leave the car to dry off. Finish your lunch, take a drive to the shops and buy your missus a bunch of flowers, it will give you credits for those late nights in the garage. All this just to make sure that your primer and dust-coat has dried properly. Last thing you want is to start rubbing back your hhard work to find that your starting to peel your primer under the wet and dry.
Get a bucket of water, preferably warm water with some ajax or lemon kitchen cleaning cream, this will remove any natural oils that your hands have while rubbing it back. I start with 320 wet and dry till nearly all of the contrasting dust coat is gone, then use 400 wet and dry till all the dust-coat is rubbed back evenly. Be carefull not to create small grooves from the iregularities of the bumps in your hands. After years of prepping and painting you soon get a feel for any small dings.
If you still have some dust coat showing, it is because of low spots, and this is the time to carefully level off the primer with some nitrocelulous wipe. It is a single pack filler, but excesive use can be a big mistake as it shrinks if used in bulk. This is purely used as a surface wipe for very minor low spots, and it sands ver easily also.
At this point I rub the whole car back with 600 wet and dry making sure that at this stage lemon creme cleaner is used in your water.

PART 2
At this stage you have chosen your paint... Either 2 Pack or Acrylic. Next you need to know what the weather is going to be like to help you choose what thinners you will need. Faster for cooler, slower for hotter is the rule of thumb.
Always start your spraying from the highest point, and making your way down. Start off by laying down your dust coat, which should flash ooff fairly fast, it will make a good key for your wet coat to be layed down on. With mini's, we are very lucky as it can be painted from seam to seam, so long as it isn't metalic or mika paint,, in that your wet coat needs to be very even.

A:If you are just using a hi-gloss single pack acrylic and not a 2 part system ( base and clear or acrylic and clear), then its time to go clean up your gun and put every thing away and get ready for dinner. (Do not attempt to colour sand for at least 7 days).

B: If you are going 2 part acrylic (Acrylic and clear), wiat tilll the next morning, Now it is time to bring out your 1200 wet and dry. Lightly rub down your paint, getting rid of (but not completely) any orange pealing that you may have from inexperience of painting. Orange peel is from not making sure your viscosity thin enough. Too thin and you can get runs very quickly, and you can also get dry bands from the pint dring too quick, again, it won't matter all that much as you will be sanding this out. This is the advantage of clear over base or clear over acrylic. Don't be tooo perdantic about making this too perfect, your clear coat will do this for you.
Generaly I do 2 dust coats in opposite directions (criss cross) and then lay on a good wet coat. I do this twice allowing a week betweenfinal coats. This need not be done, but I prefer a good thick clear coat, it gives depth and can be colour sanded to a glass finish.
I think this might cover all the basic questions on the process of painting. :wink:

Author:  meeni [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 

slinkey inc wrote:
I'd go with just the 800. Luckily your doing acrylic so any mistake is easy to fix (sand back spray again). I did 1200 for the first few panels and found it gave no advantage over the 800 so i started using 800 again, the paint did stick with the 1200 though so please yourself. Be sure to post pics! I'd love to before and after shots.!!!


if u mess up two pac u can sand it back and do it again.. if the pin holes show up in the paint, and if ur using clear, put a dot of clear on the spot and buff it off or rub it with 1200 or so and it will be less noticable.. good luck

Author:  Mini Mike [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

Well said colins... Although for a beginer I wouldnt rub down with your hand ide use A nice hard block.. Its so hard to teach people how to paint everyone thinks its so easy... They forget that those in the trade do a apprentiship for 4 years to perfect it...

Goodluck with the van buddy

Author:  Mike_Byron [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:44 pm ]
Post subject: 

Collins
What a good clear concise description. One of the mods should (please) make that that a "how to"

Short question - should I get my missus to do the spraying and then what should she buy for me ?????

Author:  sports850 [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:48 pm ]
Post subject: 

That's poeee's dept , he's the only one who can post in the how to section . Write it out for him with a bit more description of some of the terms and some pic's if you can and PM him with it . We need more people to come up with these to help everyone else .

Author:  collins [ Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

I will re-write this with pics when I get Ed done, but just for a quick help for minivanman.
I could have gone more in depth, but for right now this should sufice.

Mini Mike: Yesy for a beginer, they will find it hard to have "the feel" for rubing down a car, Sometimes a block is the way to go, but I wouldn't even sugest that for a mini as everything is convexed shaped. I found what is best is to use a large medium density foam core, that way you can hold the shape of your panels. I make my own blocks as needed, its cheap, but very afective. My hand sanding has taken years of practice, I wet my hand and place it on a dry sheet of carbide paper, that way i can feel where i need to be sanding. The only thing a long block is good for is panel preparation before hi-fill primer. Flat blocks after primer can cause flat spots very quickly, be warned.

Mke_Byron: Well, considering she will have to forfeit cleaning, ironing and cooking for a horrible and rotten job af spraying a car, she could always buy you a bloke apron for kitchen duties, and some thimbles for your efforts in sewing.. hehe....
I certainly don't envy the hard work of being a house wife, you gotta admire them for all they put into keeping the house looking good while we're out playing with the toys. :wink:

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