Yes there are some around that haven't been case hardened properly. Only way to tell is to put it in and see if it wears
or check out the Yellow Pages and find an engineer that can test the hardness for you.
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| Soft Layshafts? https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33592 |
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| Author: | Wombat [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Soft Layshafts? |
Just read a long thread on MM Forum about soft layshafts. The thread started in January not long after I bought mine in a kit from MS. Mine is not installed yet so I'll be checking it. The concern appeared to be mainly with Turbos and Racers but I was wondering if it is an issue for moderately turned street cars. DrMini made a brief comment re getting harder ones here in OZ so is it an issue I should be concerened about during the gearbox rebuild? |
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| Author: | AEG163job [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I would say yes, David. From my experience, the layshaft and its bearings is the highest wear spot in the box, along with the mainshaft spiggot bearing and perhaps the syhchro rings. You can bet that in any box you do up, the case hardening on the shaft will show signs of wear. Even the orginal factory shafts are vunerable. I think it has something to do with the less than satisfactory lubrication provision for layshaft/cluster gear inherent in the design. |
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| Author: | 73GT [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
yes me too, after reading the thread i check my MS ITEM, it was soft whereas the old BL part was hard I guess we need to complain to MS Makes me wonder about the diff pin i brought & fitted a couple of years ago, never thought to check it. |
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| Author: | britishvita [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:27 am ] |
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I read the same thread last night, was quite interesting, now I'll get mine from here instead of MS by the looks of it, glad I know now instead of when its all together!! Link to the thread if anyone wants to have a read: http://www.minimania.com/web/threadid/73869/InfoID/1/SiteMessages/59/msgthread.cfm |
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| Author: | VicMini13 [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yes there are some around that haven't been case hardened properly. Only way to tell is to put it in and see if it wears or check out the Yellow Pages and find an engineer that can test the hardness for you.
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| Author: | My_Mini_Rocks [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Or save your self the time and call us, we ONLY sell the hard type after some bad experiences and some horror stories. The soft type you can scratch with a file 
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| Author: | mickmini [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
MG heritage in smithfield nsw also has the hard ones 
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
mickmini wrote: MG heritage in smithfield nsw also has the hard ones
They make their own from the right grade steel, and get them properly heat treated and ground. I've bought quite a few now and never had wear problems. re the soft ones, I rebuilt Mike's S box with a MiniSpares gearbox bearing etc kit he brought from UK. Included all new bearings and a layshaft. 1000 miles later we had to strip it for an unrelated problem. The layshaft was already badly worn at the 1st gear end.  
It got an MG Heritage one when reassembled. 
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| Author: | lmbm [ Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Layshaft hardness |
Hi, had the chance to test the hardness ( Rockwell C scale ) 5 different layshafts, i doubt on the accuracy of the Hardness tester used ( small handy device with a pen punching the steel ), anyway it allowed to compare the hardness between them. - new pre A+ Australian MG Heritage layshaft 43 HRC - new Minispares A+ competition layshaft 43 HRC - used factory A+ layshaft from low milleage metro 51 HRC - used layshaft from high milleage 4 synchro remote box 52 HRC - new old stock pre A+ 4 synchro layshaft 55HRC so...factory ones are still the best, i'll be using the NOS one. Cheers Luis |
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| Author: | Karcraft [ Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There are other alternatives available. 22G931# - LAYSHAFT - MINI (ALL SYNCRO)(UK MADE)(64 ROCKWELL)(COMP) Made from EN36T steel - case hardened (by a special treatment) all over to 62 to 64 Rockwell.
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| Author: | 850man [ Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
There used to be a lot of "soft" layshafts around a few years ago. NMP had there own good ones made when HD owned the business, I dont know if Andrew continued doing so. As said above, a quick check is to test with a file, the soft ones will mark easily. |
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| Author: | GT mowog [ Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Generally I have found that the surface of most after market layshaft to be quite hard (60 to 65 Rockwell), but I have experienced short life (in one case less than 5000km) with most of these. What we have found is they lack depth of hardness. In all reality, for street use a shaft with a Rockwell of between 60 to 65 will happily get the job done, HOWEVER, the depth of this hardness needs to be at least 0.8 mm with 1.0 mm (0.040") ideal. It's like building a steel fram shed on mud. While the shed is strong, the foundations are very weak. The factory ones we have tested were around the 64 Rockwell mark to a depth of at least 0.035" and the 'base metal' is around the 45 Rockwell. Certainly the Layshafts from Karcraft are quite good. The other thing to watch is oil and oil temp. Generally a 20W-50 or 60 weight oil is the go, but it is important to keep an eye on it's temperature. The 'thicker' grade oil will run hotter on a newer engine. |
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