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 Post subject: radiator
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:41 pm 
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1098cc
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Location: Kaniva / Adelaide / Melbourne
Has anyone run one of these before (is a 1275) motor.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Mini-Cooper-S-Al ... dZViewItem

Went for roadworthy today and passed, but he did say it needs a new radiator and while I m at it I know it either has a bad head gasket or a small crack somewhere wo will get that fixed while I m at it! Looks like she wont make minis at the mill :cry:

Let me know about the radiator


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:47 pm 
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Quote:
Warranty does not cover electrolyses


Beware.. aluminium is the first metal to suffer in a mixed-metal engine. Same goes for the alloy water pump housings, they corrode fairly quickly in a Mini engine.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:53 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
You can get it recored for less, or even just a reverse flush for less than a 80 depending on the damage to the radiator.

Nothing wrong with copper as a heat conductor, slightly better than aluminium I believe. Aluminium is cheaper than copper too by the kilo...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:00 pm 
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998cc
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Location: ASQUITH NSW, Engine size:1310
so why do poeple go for alloy, all the new cars have alloy these days for some reason

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:03 pm 
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buztoy wrote:
so why do poeple go for alloy, all the new cars have alloy these days for some reason

Mick wrote:
Nothing wrong with copper as a heat conductor, slightly better than aluminium I believe. Aluminium is cheaper than copper too by the kilo...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:16 pm 
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998cc
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Location: ASQUITH NSW, Engine size:1310
alloy vs copper would be like a buck or 2 difference, i think there is more to it than price of the mineral that it is made out of,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:17 pm 
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buztoy wrote:
so why do poeple go for alloy, all the new cars have alloy these days for some reason


Alloys are fine, as long as they're similar throughout the water jacket. It's when you get cast iron, steels, aluminium, copper, etc. all in the same fluid that you get electrolysis. The weakest metal becomes sacrificial, and corrodes.

In the Mini, you've got cast iron (block and head), copper (radiator), aluminium alloy (water pump). It's the water pump which is the first to go.

More modern engines which use alloy blocks and heads don't suffer this problem with alloy radiators, because the materials are all similar.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:39 pm 
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998cc
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so did they ever make a cast iron water pump,

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 pm 
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sgc wrote:
Alloys are fine, as long as they're similar throughout the water jacket. It's when you get cast iron, steels, aluminium, copper, etc. all in the same fluid that you get electrolysis. The weakest metal becomes sacrificial, and corrodes.

In the Mini, you've got cast iron (block and head), copper (radiator), aluminium alloy (water pump). It's the water pump which is the first to go.

More modern engines which use alloy blocks and heads don't suffer this problem with alloy radiators, because the materials are all similar.


thats true, but over here there are still a lot of mixed materials engines, iron block with alloy head are very common. and the alloy won't suffer 'cause the cooling fluid is made for this, just don't use plain water

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:19 pm 
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buztoy wrote:
so did they ever make a cast iron water pump,

Yes they did, every Austalian Mini had one originally. `Detroit Wonder Metal'.8)
The alloy ones are all aftermarket. They are cheaper then the repair kits for the cast iron ones eventually were. Easier to fit a new one than repair the old.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:08 pm 
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"Just don't use plain water"

That's interesting, because it's hard to define plain water, being from different countries and all. Tap water, and rain water would be different.

But distilled water should be fine, as it does not conduct electricity well at all. So the electrons should not leave the aluminium. Electrons leaving the aluminium (or any metal) is a process called 'oxidation'. And the Aluminium ions (which are now ions, not aluminium metal) would flow through the electrolyte, leaving a radiator with less and less metal until it leaks, falls appart etc. But this wouldn't happen as distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity, hence isn't an electrolyte? How is coolant for conducting? Also in an electrolytic cell you usually use a solution containing the ions you want to oxidise or reduce as the electrolyte.
:?

This is equally a questions as it is a statement.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:12 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
24 Oct Official
Prices Cash
Copper $77.36
Aluminium $24.75


It sure is about the dollar. It's not about thermal conductivity, and it sure isn't about weight although that will be the positive spin they might try to tell you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:44 pm 
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Mick wrote:
24 Oct Official
Prices Cash
Copper $77.36
Aluminium $24.75


It sure is about the dollar. It's not about thermal conductivity, and it sure isn't about weight although that will be the positive spin they might try to tell you.
Yep, it is all about the dollar.
Not only do you have copper core but there is also the brass tanks and then you need solder (lead/zinc) to stick it together. Plastic and Aluminum is much much cheaper. :)
Because aluminum is less effective for cooling you need a bigger radiator, once you make the radiator bigger you also need more water. So the damn thing ends up heavier anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:03 pm 
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Mick wrote:
24 Oct Official
Prices Cash
Copper $77.36
Aluminium $24.75


Yeah, that accounts for people stealing live overhead train power lines in Melbourne, and circa 300km of trackside wiring in country Victoria. Copper is valuable. Thank the Chinese for that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:18 pm 
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998cc
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slinkey inc wrote:
"Just don't use plain water"

That's interesting, because it's hard to define plain water, being from different countries and all. Tap water, and rain water would be different.

yes, thats true. if i say "plain water" i mean the tap water over here (has to be of much better quality than most bottled drinking waters over here)

Quote:
But distilled water should be fine, as it does not conduct electricity well at all. So the electrons should not leave the aluminium. Electrons leaving the aluminium (or any metal) is a process called 'oxidation'. And the Aluminium ions (which are now ions, not aluminium metal) would flow through the electrolyte, leaving a radiator with less and less metal until it leaks, falls appart etc. But this wouldn't happen as distilled water is a poor conductor of electricity, hence isn't an electrolyte? How is coolant for conducting? Also in an electrolytic cell you usually use a solution containing the ions you want to oxidise or reduce as the electrolyte.
:?

This is equally a questions as it is a statement.

i am not sure about distilled water without coolant, i know it will corrode less than with non-distilled water, but it still does (tested with a summer-only car). only distilled water with some coolant kept the system clean (and lubed the waterpump), but don't ask me why

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