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Radiator
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Author:  rehab1964 [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Radiator
The Princess decided to have a bit of a leak on the garage floor :cry:

I had been thinking about sending the readiator off to be looked at, now it's clearly too late.

I doubt the orginal radiator would stand up to rodding and cleaning, it seems to be a bit too fragile.

What's the current thought on best available radiators?

Like many I find the 1275's tend to run a bit hot and, in the larger heavier body (mmmm dead cow and lots of tree) it's hotter again than the other cars so, rather than just recore what I have I'm keen to look at options.

Suggestions?
Author:  TheMiniMan [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have alloy ones here that cool the very best most powerful engines no problemos

:-)

PM me for details if you like
cheers
Author:  doc.martin [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Radiators
I have just been through what you are going through..

I decided to purchase an Aluminium Radiator - Basically because of the better thermal qualities over copper/brass units.

I am VERY happy with my decision. The car now shows no sign of overheating even in the hottest QLD temps. (I can actually see the temp change on the guage when the thermostat opens and closes!)

I know that there are all sorts of differing thoughts on what is the best radiator for a mini but all I can say the Aluminium unit works much better than the well maintained 'S' unit that I used to have installed.

Hope this helps

Doc.Martin
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Radiators
doc.martin wrote:
I have just been through what you are going through..

I decided to purchase an Aluminium Radiator - Basically because of the better thermal qualities over copper/brass units.
Doc.Martin

If you study the properties of these, you will find aluminium is inferior to copper in thermal conductivity, but not by much.
Its benefit is cost, which is the real reason modern cars use it. Great until it corrodes (which it eventually will, in a cast iron engine)..... and then how do you clean it out if the tanks are welded on? :cry:

I have a UK super 2 core in the 1293 (~60HP ATW) and a reconditioned 3 core Mini Deluxe/Cooper S one in the 1360 (86.6HP ATW).
Both work fine in hot weather, but I'd advise STAY AWAY from the cheapo UK 3 core, it hasn't enough fins and is nowhere near as good as Oz Mini ones. And, they fall to bits, the side brackets are poorly attached. I have `exhibit A' hanging on the wall now, it's about 3 months old... :evil:

If your radiater has seen better days, I'd consider a recore. Natra radiators etc can still supply new cores for them. Probably be cheaper than either a new super 2 core, or an alloy one. :wink:
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Radiator
rehab1964 wrote:
The Princess decided to have a bit of a leak on the garage floor :cry:

I had been thinking about sending the readiator off to be looked at, now it's clearly too late.

I doubt the orginal radiator would stand up to rodding and cleaning, it seems to be a bit too fragile.

Suggestions?
Take it to your local radiator bloke and get a new core fitted. :wink:
Author:  doc.martin [ Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Radiators
Hi DrMini

Yep you would be right if you could buy a radiator made completely of copper, but they are copper/brass radiators.

Silver is actually the best thermal conductor with a rating of 429 W/mK (watt per meter kelvin)
Copper is 2nd @ 401 W/mK
3rd is Aluminum @ 373 W/mK

Brass @ Bronze come in way down the list @ 110 and 52 W/mK respectively.

So, 100% Copper IS more efficient than Aluminum, but when you factor in the Copper/Brass mix of a 'traditional' radiator the Aluminum radiators win the efficiency contest.

Some quote that an aluminum radiator when compared to a traditional copper/brass radiator can be up to 25% more efficient. - Obviously there are a lot of factors to consider though..

There are new copper alloys and joining processes being developed for radiators which sound promising - but the jury is still out which will come out on top.

The other advantage with Alu. is that the tubes can be optimised to increase the surface area in contact with the coolant... and they are about half the weight!

I am NOT saying that a copper/brass radiator is no good, I just decided on an Aluminum one for the above reasons, and have been more than happy with the results.

Hope this answers your questions Rehab1964

Cheers

Doc.Martin
Author:  rehab1964 [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:26 am ]
Post subject: 
sorry, I forget to memtion that we had the Countryman radiator recored a couple of years ago - that car goes into hibernation during the summer now because she runs so hot (and yes everything has been checked), I think she pines for England and home.

Unless someone has a radiator shop they can recommend in Melbourne I don't think I'll get another recored for this outcome.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:33 am ]
Post subject: 
rehab1964 wrote:
sorry, I forget to memtion that we had the Countryman radiator recored a couple of years ago - that car goes into hibernation during the summer now because she runs so hot (and yes everything has been checked), I think she pines for England and home.

Unless someone has a radiator shop they can recommend in Melbourne I don't think I'll get another recored for this outcome.

The original UK 3 cores (probably same as your Countryman was) we got here on 850 and Cooper 997 were only 12 gills/fins per inch, but the Oz Cooper S, Mini Deluxe and later rads are all 16. It makes a hell of a difference. :wink:
Author:  buztoy [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
i was looking at a farm car that we use at work and its a suzuki swift, their radiator is a similar size and cools a 1.3, im wondering if it will cool down an a-series, but then again i have other overheating problems at the moment :(

so if the cooling setup in any oz mini is only just enough to keep it cool is there anything else that can be done,
Author:  rehab1964 [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
rehab1964 wrote:
sorry, I forget to memtion that we had the Countryman radiator recored a couple of years ago - that car goes into hibernation during the summer now because she runs so hot (and yes everything has been checked), I think she pines for England and home.

Unless someone has a radiator shop they can recommend in Melbourne I don't think I'll get another recored for this outcome.

The original UK 3 cores (probably same as your Trav was) we got here on 850 and Cooper 997 were only 12 gills/fins per inch, Oz Cooper S, Mini Deluxe and later rads are all 16. It makes a hell of a difference. :wink:


'scuse my ignorance - if I had the 12 gill/fin one recored would they have just used the smae again? or would they have used Aussie parts? - is there any simple way I can check? As I said, I really can't see any differnece - the poor bloody thing just runs so hot we try not to use it from November to March :(
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject: 
buztoy wrote:
so if the cooling setup in any oz mini is only just enough to keep it cool is there anything else that can be done,

:shock: Well my 3 core recond Oz radiator cools my 1360 fine, and it has something more that 120HP at crank, and the fan is just a 16 blade metal one. It sits at 75C normally, or 80-85C on a stinking hot day in traffic. Yes I've checked the temp with an electronic thermometer. 8)
If a recond stock rad won't cool your 998/1098, there's something seriously wrong with the motor. :idea:
Author:  d1ck0 [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
rehab1964 wrote:
'scuse my ignorance - if I had the 12 gill/fin one recored would they have just used the smae again? or would they have used Aussie parts? :(
Chances are they would have used an Aussie aftermarket core of the correct (or similar) dimensions. No guarantee that the fins would have rated a mention in the decision. It's more what their supplier (of cores) carries.

Dicko
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:42 am ]
Post subject: 
put a ruler against it and count. 1, 2, 3,, until you hit the 1" mark. :wink:
Author:  feralsprint [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Radiators
doc.martin wrote:
Hi DrMini

Yep you would be right if you could buy a radiator made completely of copper, but they are copper/brass radiators.

Silver is actually the best thermal conductor with a rating of 429 W/mK (watt per meter kelvin)
Copper is 2nd @ 401 W/mK
3rd is Aluminum @ 373 W/mK

Brass @ Bronze come in way down the list @ 110 and 52 W/mK respectively.

So, 100% Copper IS more efficient than Aluminum, but when you factor in the Copper/Brass mix of a 'traditional' radiator the Aluminum radiators win the efficiency contest.

Some quote that an aluminum radiator when compared to a traditional copper/brass radiator can be up to 25% more efficient. - Obviously there are a lot of factors to consider though..

There are new copper alloys and joining processes being developed for radiators which sound promising - but the jury is still out which will come out on top.

The other advantage with Alu. is that the tubes can be optimised to increase the surface area in contact with the coolant... and they are about half the weight!

I am NOT saying that a copper/brass radiator is no good, I just decided on an Aluminum one for the above reasons, and have been more than happy with the results.

Hope this answers your questions Rehab1964

Cheers

Doc.Martin



Sorry to rain on your parade but they have not made rads out of brass since the T model ford and your own figures show that copper is no 2 and that is what they were made of before the move to placci and alloy for weight saving and cost sutting

Jon
Author:  simon k [ Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:49 am ]
Post subject: 
ADO16's use a larger radiator than a mini, do they not?
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