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4 Point Harness for Road Use?
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45455		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  4 Point Harness for Road Use?
Is is possible to install harnesses and get them engineered?

From what i can tell looking at ADR's no oz mini is required to meet ADR4 which deals with seats belts (and does not allow them in cars meeting this ADR) so does that mean being pre ADR4 my 78 clubby can have harnesses installed?

If i put a bucket seat in the standard 3point belt isn't going to work so well and i hardly drive the mini and most of the time will be on a cruise/track/drag not commuting.
Author:  doogie [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I belive it will have to be enginnered as a 2 seater to legally allow harnesses to be used.

Im gunna have to enginner mine for some strange reason!
Image

Doogie
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
yea don't have too much of a problem registering it as a two seater, just as long as it could be done. Are you going to run harnesses in the MK2?
Author:  Stuwey [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
From 1979 on, an ELR (emergency locking retractor) type seatbelt must be used.

This must be both velocity locking, and pitch, too. This is why belts stop 'feeding' out when not at their fitted position. Typically, these will have either 'VW' or 'ADR4' on their tags.

Up until '69 - no belts required. From January '69 to '72 (from memory, I have the paperwork on my desk at work) The minimum legal requirement is a static-type lap/sash belt. From January '72 onwards, an ELR belt is required to be fitted. Which one you wear is your choice :wink:

If you can find a harness that has a retractable mechanism, you may be able to have an engineer deem it to be ok within the rulebook. Try the Schroth retractable ASM range (or PM me). HOWEVER these only come in a 3-point design, and CAMS will now only accept 4-point harnesses.

The 2-seater rule is a seperate issue to do with the harness protuding through the rear passenger seating area.

If it were me (i wish), i'd fit a half-cage, keeping the closest point 150mm from your head in the rearmost seated postion (RTA ruling here) and engineer the vehicle as a 2 seater. Buckets, harnesses, cage, legal.

It easy when you know the rules 8) :lol:
Author:  doogie [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mini Mad wrote:
yea don't have too much of a problem registering it as a two seater, just as long as it could be done. Are you going to run harnesses in the MK2?



Sure am mate, FIA approved 3 inch 4 point harnesses. :wink:


Doogie
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cool, so Stuwey what does the cage change in the rules? why does it allow you to fit the harnesses?

Sounds like a plan...Mmmm...cage, harnesses and seats.. 8)
Author:  Stuwey [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
The 'cage is a rear-seat intrusion issue, and so is the harness.

Might as well fix 'em both in one go!

This way, you can also mount the harness to the cage - much better than the bloody parcel shelf.
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok cool, you said earlier though from '72 onwards and ELR belt is required....by registering it as a two seater i can get around this? and the cage is just an added benefit.
Author:  Hanra [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
2 S's & a clubman wrote:
Mini Mad wrote:
yea don't have too much of a problem registering it as a two seater, just as long as it could be done. Are you going to run harnesses in the MK2?



Sure am mate, FIA approved 3 inch 4 point harnesses. :wink:


Doogie


Do the harnesses carry an ADR approval also? I would imagine FIA wouldnt meant anything to the DOT or possibly an engineer????
Author:  Stuwey [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hanra wrote:
Do the harnesses carry an ADR approval also? I would imagine FIA wouldnt meant anything to the DOT or possibly an engineer????


I'm still confused about a 3", 4-point harness. I thought all 3" ones were a 5 or 6-point design that was dated for a 6 year period.

Harnesses, as a rule, aren't legal. The problem here is that if worn incorrectly, they can be lethal. (lap section too high on the abdomen)

Quote:
by registering it as a two seater i can get around this?


Josh, you can't get around the ADR's. You still need the lap/sash retractable one there for that. Just fit a retractable belt (Klippan 1512) to the lower sill mount in the doorway to satisfy that, and keep the cage and harness mounted in the rear areas.

Picky, i know...
Author:  Mini Mad [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Stuwey wrote:
Josh, you can't get around the ADR's. You still need the lap/sash retractable one there for that. Just fit a retractable belt (Klippan 1512) to the lower sill mount in the doorway to satisfy that, and keep the cage and harness mounted in the rear areas.

Picky, i know...


But i can't wear the harnesses on the road then? or just having the lap sash retractable belt in place is good enough?

Those retractable 3point harnesses look like a good idea, i take it they fit through the two holes on a normal bucket seat up the top?
Author:  Stuwey [ Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mini Mad wrote:
But i can't wear the harnesses on the road then?

Not officially, no. But i know of a hot chick that regularly gets away with it :lol:

Quote:
or just having the lap sash retractable belt in place is good enough?


To satisfy ADRs, yes. Police - maybe.

Quote:
Those retractable 3point harnesses look like a good idea, i take it they fit through the two holes on a normal bucket seat up the top?


Thats the idea. But remember, 4 point minimum for CAMS use.
Author:  Stuwey [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:21 am ]
Post subject: 
<EDIT>

Now at work, the dates are....

Up to 69 - No requirements.

69 to 75 - Front lap/sash static.
71 to 84 - Rear lap/sash static.

75 onwards - Front lap/sash ELR.
84 onwards - Rear lap/sash ELR.

So, anything from 75 will require the retractable belt to be fitted.
Author:  badassmini [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
i'm not to shore if i'm reading this right but i got a 64 mini so i would be ok to put a half roll cage and harnesses in my car without having to have a lap sash belt to.
Author:  Hanra [ Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
QLD laws could be different to SA?
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