you forgot about bog
hehe you know your gunna need it! 
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| Body prep order https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48096 |
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| Author: | henry the mini [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Body prep order |
In the process of gathering some chemicals for the restoration and just want to ensure i got thing correct 1 - etch primer 2 - primer 3 - Top coat Is this what you have been doing? Also, what brand have you been using for etch and primer? Thanks Louis |
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| Author: | DTrain [ Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
you forgot about bog hehe you know your gunna need it!
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| Author: | clubmn [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | jay |
I can go into more detail if you like, ie what fillers, sealers etc I’m using. But to answer your question the primer I’m using and is highly recommended and regarded as possibly the best to work with is made by PPG and the product is DP40 Epoxy Primer (they make another primer also that isnt epoxy, not called DP40) And as for body filler no fill directly on metal, prime before you fill.. |
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| Author: | henry the mini [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: jay |
clubmn wrote: And as for body filler no fill directly on metal, prime before you fill..
 i have been told by panel beater to always use filer on bare clean metal, not on prime as it will crack.
As for sealer, what are you using? |
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| Author: | Lindsay_Palmer [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Lois You will also need 1lt of spray filler/primer sometime known as hifil, this is applied over repairs before the final coat of primer and blocked back to remove any small sandpaper marks. You can get away with using a thick coat of primer to do the same job but it is a lot more work. As for brands PPG is good stuff, use the one brand for everything as mixing and matching brands can end in bad results and no customer support. Good luck. Lindsay |
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| Author: | britishvita [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: jay |
clubmn wrote: I can go into more detail if you like, ie what fillers, sealers etc I’m using. But to answer your question the primer I’m using and is highly recommended and regarded as possibly the best to work with is made by PPG and the product is DP40 Epoxy Primer (they make another primer also that isnt epoxy, not called DP40)
And as for body filler no fill directly on metal, prime before you fill.. That DP40 is great stuff. You can either apply bog direct to clean metal or on top of the DP40 and then respray DP40 over the bog. You can use PPG's K38 as a primer/filler or if you want to save a few $$$ you can use the Autothane brand which is a bit cheaper but still made by PPG. Also you will need to apply seam sealer, do this after the spray filler and before a sealer coat if you are going to apply one (you can also use DP40 for this) or top coat. |
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| Author: | Ben_Aus_Mini [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
1 - etch primer 2 - primer What are the difference? |
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| Author: | BigGig [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Etch primer 'keys' into the metal and gives a bonding medium between metal and primer (sandable primer which is a touch heavier than etch and fills a few light imperfections) which you use to get the surface smooth for the top coats. If you have deep scratces or dents you can use body filler straight onto the metal or after the etch primer. Bare in mind that body filler is designed to have the same expansion coefficient as the metal, and depending on thickness of the etch primer can sometimes lead to bonding problems if applied onto it. The system I personally think works is: 1. Bare metal 2. remove or lessen deep dents 3. Body fill scratches and the now shallow dents with thin layers of filler following instructions on the container. 4. Use a sanding plane to keep panels straight when sanding down bog. 5. Etch prime. 6. Depending on surface finish either apply sanding primer or hi-fill primer if you have deep scratches or pitting still. 7. Continue to apply and sand primer with 240 wet and dry soaked in water for 24 hrs until imperfections are gone. 8. Apply a final couple of coats of sanding primer and smooth down with 400 wet and dry soaked as above. 9. Let it all cure as per manufactures recommendations. 10. Go over the whole car with a clean lint free cloths and Wax and Grease remover ( actually you should do this before every paint session) 11. Spray your top coat as per manufactures recommendations. 12. admire your work. Notes: Epoxy primer is the best for durability and corrosion protection. Epoxy body filler is good but whatever filler you get use a fine grade one for finishing - don't get the cheap bog it is too grainy and is hard to work with. This is a basic methodology it is not the definitive way of doing things - give it a go. Gig |
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| Author: | henry the mini [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
[quote="BigGig"]Etch primer 'keys' into the metal and gives a bonding medium between metal and primer (sandable primer which is a touch heavier than etch and fills a few light imperfections) which you use to get the surface smooth for the top coats. If you have deep scratces or dents you can use body filler straight onto the metal or after the etch primer. Bare in mind that body filler is designed to have the same expansion coefficient as the metal, and depending on thickness of the etch primer can sometimes lead to bonding problems if applied onto it. The system I personally think works is: 1. Bare metal 2. remove or lessen deep dents 3. Body fill scratches and the now shallow dents with thin layers of filler following instructions on the container. 4. Use a sanding plane to keep panels straight when sanding down bog. 5. Etch prime. 6. Depending on surface finish either apply sanding primer or hi-fill primer if you have deep scratches or pitting still. 7. Continue to apply and sand primer with 240 wet and dry soaked in water for 24 hrs until imperfections are gone. 8. Apply a final couple of coats of sanding primer and smooth down with 400 wet and dry soaked as above. 9. Let it all cure as per manufactures recommendations. 10. Go over the whole car with a clean lint free cloths and Wax and Grease remover ( That is quality, thanks so much for that.... |
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| Author: | BigGig [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey, No worries. Actually I only found out about putting the filler directly onto the metal AFTER I had put mine over the etch primer. I also found that when you rub it back you end up taking the etch primer off around the filler area anyway - so you might as well wait till the bogging is done anyway. The other bit that I forgot to mention is to use a dusting coat to highlight any imperfections - just lightly spray a contrasting or darker colour primer over your work - lightly sand it and it will show the low and high spots - keep doing that until it it smooth. Good luck, Gig |
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| Author: | miniclubbhoy [ Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
correct me if i'm wrong but there are two choices when going onto bare metal: 1 - Use an etch primer. 2 - Use an Acid Etch (basically phosphoric acid) followed by an Epoxy primer. The guy who teaches spray painters at the local college here tells me he always goes with number 2 (ahem). However, never use etch primer after using an acid etch. Hope this helps!! 
I have a set of notes that the guy wrote - from bare metal to finish. PM me if you want a copy. |
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| Author: | britishvita [ Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
miniclubbhoy wrote: correct me if i'm wrong but there are two choices when going onto bare metal:
1 - Use an etch primer. 2 - Use an Acid Etch (basically phosphoric acid) followed by an Epoxy primer. The guy who teaches spray painters at the local college here tells me he always goes with number 2 (ahem). However, never use etch primer after using an acid etch. To expand a bit further.. Etch primer bonds to the metal by chemical means Epoxy primer bonds to the metal by mechanical means (ie the bare metal is sanded with 80 grit paper and the paint bonds to this) Phosphoric acid is the chemical that is used as a rust converter by many companies such as Por15, septone, ppg etc etc So the "optimal" steps to prime are rub down the body to shiny metal with 80 grit, convert rust with rust converter, prime with epoxy primer then do the high build primer etc etc etc |
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| Author: | cookie720 [ Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
The age old question for auto body restorers - I ask the same questions every time I undertake a new project! I rarely go back to bare metal if there are shallow dents in the paint (if it aint broke dont fix it) I usually key the dent with 40 or so grit and apply bog straight onto the paint good paint. As for cracked paint and major dents where i need to go back to bare metal, or rust repairs where I have welded new sheet metal patches in. I bog straight over bare metal...I dont do primer before bog. I only sometimes use rust converter+primer (shown below: it dries with a scratchy rough matt black/purple type finish) ontop of the welds, and then sand it off. I havent had any problems with any of my cars doing it this way, I guess because i bog straight after keying the metal and prime it straight after , not leave it for long before topcoat. Usually its no longer than a month in primer undercover, no moisture and only gets wet when I wet sand just before top coat. Should I paint the bare metal with something before bog though? http://www.paintsupplies.com.au/index.p ... &Itemid=31 do you think the primer they have advertised here is any good? "RustFighter Primer - Used under enamel to prevent rust. 4 Litre $45-" Could I use the paint suppliers stuff brushed on, and then bog for this? Maybe POR15 or something? 
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