ausmini :: View topic - Crab Walking

There is a way you can check alignment youself. It is a bit fiddly though.

Put the car on a flat surface. Get 2 rods that are wider than the car. Attach them to the front and rear of the car at the height of the centre of the wheel. If this is difficult you could attach them to a stool,chair or similar, one in front and one behind.

Find the centre of the car front and rear. Measure from a similar point on both sides of the subframe and find the centre, run a string under the car from front to rear along the centre line and mark the centre on the rods.

Run a string line from front to rear on both sides at exactly the same distance out from the centre line. You can then measure from the string to the front and rear of each wheel. You should straighten the front wheels so the measurements are the same both sides.

The measurements to all wheels should be the same both sides.

The difference in the measurements will tell you should tell you whether the car is out of square and by how much.

Mind you, any good wheel alignment place should pick up if the car is out of square.

Hope this makes sense.

Pete

Author:	Ackerz [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Crab Walking
Hi guys just wandering if someone would be able to help me?? I own a 78 Clubman and the thing crab walks to the left. It has got adjustable suspension front and rear. it has been wheel aligned by Ace tyres in st marys NSW have been using them through my brothers workshop for years now and trust them that they have done a good job, I have measured up the back end of the car to make sure that it has not have any damage from previous accidents and it is square. But it still crab walks!!!!!! I was just wandering whether anybody has encountered this problem before and if so if they could pass on a few pointers so I can start looking in the right direction. Thanks. PS I have done a search for this topic but came up with nothing if it has been explained somewhere else if someone could post a link that would be great.

Author:	brett [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:
either the car has had a big hit, or the rear subframe is out of allignment.

Author:	drmini in aust [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:
It's not enough for rear toe-in to be to spec, it must be equal on both sides. Sight along the outside of rear tyres from the rear to the body near the front of doors, it should look the same both sides. To get my `Matic to stop crabbing I had to move the hole in the LH trailing arm outer bracket forwards 1.5mm, then use shims behind the bracket to adjust it right. Obviously from other evidence the car had a slight rear LH hit sometime in the last 38 years, alignment has been fine though since I did this.

Author:	Ackerz [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks. The to on the back is +0.1mm according to the printout from the wheel alignment. I have measured the back of the car (as in the subframe for squareness) and it came up square i might need to remove it from the car to inspect it properly. Thanks.

Author:	drmini in aust [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Toe in on the back should be 1/8" (3.18mm) total. 0.1mm is nowhere near right for a road car, even on a racer it will make the rear end somewhat skittish. If it's crabbing, one side has way more toe-in than the other. Could be the subby out of square, could be a bent trailing arm (common), could be the trailing arm shaft has seized sometime and worn its inner attachment hole in the subby..

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Crab Walking https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48710	Page 1 of 2

Author:	albino235 [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Crab Walking
Ackerz wrote: It has got adjustable suspension front and rear. Or they just don't realise the rear is adjustable, I think you can change the toe on most of the adjustable brackets. However most wheel alignment places can't measure ten inch wheels and don't realize anything is adjustable... You should be able to measure it and adjust it yourself by using a straight edge along the sills (offset so you can measure in to the wheel rim)

Author:	peterw [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:
There is a way you can check alignment youself. It is a bit fiddly though. Put the car on a flat surface. Get 2 rods that are wider than the car. Attach them to the front and rear of the car at the height of the centre of the wheel. If this is difficult you could attach them to a stool,chair or similar, one in front and one behind. Find the centre of the car front and rear. Measure from a similar point on both sides of the subframe and find the centre, run a string under the car from front to rear along the centre line and mark the centre on the rods. Run a string line from front to rear on both sides at exactly the same distance out from the centre line. You can then measure from the string to the front and rear of each wheel. You should straighten the front wheels so the measurements are the same both sides. The measurements to all wheels should be the same both sides. The difference in the measurements will tell you should tell you whether the car is out of square and by how much. Mind you, any good wheel alignment place should pick up if the car is out of square. Hope this makes sense. Pete

Author:	9YaTaH [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:37 am ]
Post subject:	Align
peterw wrote: There is a way you can check alignment youself. It is a bit fiddly though. Put the car on a flat surface. Get 2 rods that are wider than the car. Attach them to the front and rear of the car at the height of the centre of the wheel. If this is difficult you could attach them to a stool,chair or similar, one in front and one behind. Find the centre of the car front and rear. Measure from a similar point on both sides of the subframe and find the centre, run a string under the car from front to rear along the centre line and mark the centre on the rods. Run a string line from front to rear on both sides at exactly the same distance out from the centre line. You can then measure from the string to the front and rear of each wheel. You should straighten the front wheels so the measurements are the same both sides. The measurements to all wheels should be the same both sides. The difference in the measurements will tell you should tell you whether the car is out of square and by how much. Mind you, any good wheel alignment place should pick up if the car is out of square. Hope this makes sense. Pete True...(get it ) Trouble is these days that a lot of wheel aligners just want you off their apparatus as quick as they can and on to the next job and I doubt if many would know that the rear subframe on a Mini can be put on skew-wiff...I think this car should go and see a Mini specialist.

Author:	simon k [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:
don't discount that the subframe can be in the car crooked...

Author:	drmini in aust [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:31 am ]
Post subject:
simon k wrote: don't discount that the subframe can be in the car crooked... ... or the car bent. After 30 or 40 years anything is possible. Minis were not exactly straight when new.

Author:	9YaTaH [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Hoe Yeah
simon k wrote: don't discount that the subframe can be in the car crooked... or the subby is bent itself....we could go on and on http://media.photobucket.com/video/R2D2 ... e-Down.flv

Author:	Lillee [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:
I doubt any mini from the factory was dead straight... A mini rides on the rear wheels, mine did this for quite some time until I got all 4 wheels checked for alignment relative to one another. You can do it in many ways, the simplest of which is to take a tape measure and measure from the bottom arm of the front right to the trailing arm of the rear right, then the other side. And then all four versus a marked point on the car, the best of which is where the rear subframe bolts to the body (sort of where the rear seat backrest is) Mine was out on this measurement by at least 1-2cm. on the left This was enough to throw the car into a left crab. It can be fixed in many ways as well, I got the guy to tell me exacly how many degrees my left and right was off by and DrMini redrilled my rear brackets to compensate. On mine the left was a few degrees toed out and the right was a few degrees toed in which equalled left crab.

Author:	drmini in aust [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:
There is provision for shims between the outer bracket and subframe. Adding shims can only reduce the toe-in. However if it's parallel or toed out already with no shims there, "Houston... we have a problem".

Author:	1310/71 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:
You could try a trip to St George Steering in Bexley to see John Leffler for a wheel alignment. Whilst many can do it, he is recognised as the best to work on minis in my opinion. I don't have his number or address handy, but I'm sure someone will post it up soon. KB

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Author:	John Smidt [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:
1310/71 wrote: You could try a trip to St George Steering in Bexley to see John Leffler for a wheel alignment. Whilst many can do it, he is recognised as the best to work on minis in my opinion. I don't have his number or address handy, but I'm sure someone will post it up soon. KB Highly Recomended, This Is His Phone Number (02) 97507650