They are easy to lose when apart, they fall off the drive flange when you are not looking..
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| wheel hub housing in relation to wheel flange/CV joint https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50011 |
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| Author: | VH770 [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | wheel hub housing in relation to wheel flange/CV joint |
hi guys, recently i replaced the front right CV joint in the '65 Mini Deluxe. I was prompted to inspect the wheel areas due to a low frequency rotational noise that was heard at all times when in motion (forward or reverse, neutral or in gear). when inspected, the CV boot was torn up, grease was everywhere, and the wheel assembly could be moved horizontally (along with the driveshaft) about 5mm either way (10mm total travel) when the car was jacked up off the ground. no such movement or wear were observed at the left wheel. after replacing the CV joint and briefly road-testing, it seems that the CV joint was not the culprit as the wheel assembly is still able to be moved horizontally in relation to the hub housing. after closer inspection, it appears that the wheel hub housing is stationary and will not move at all (good), but the flange can be pushed and pulled along the horizontal, taking the driveshaft with it. i've torqued the hub nut to 100ft/lbs, but in my manual it states two figures: 150ft/lbs for the cooper S, and 60ft/lbs for the regular mini. which setting do i want? i may try tightening to the full 150ft/lbs. the fact is, i dont see it being the case that an extra 50ft/lbs will account for 10mm of travel in the assembly? can anybody suggest what is going on here, or what i should next be doing? the wheel bearings are only around 6 months old, and when inspected (when the hub was removed during CVJ replacement) they seemed OK (some slight wear was visible on the outer grease seal). any help would be appreciated cheers |
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| Author: | Curly [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 am ] |
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Is the tapered collar (spacer) fitted behind the hub flange? |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:14 am ] |
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DO NOT torque the drum brake (or Cooper 997/998) CV past 60lb/ft, you will stretch or break the thread. Cooper S and later CVs have a much bigger thread, they take 150lb/ft or more. Check that the oil seal spacer is not missing from behind the drive flange... I can't see how else you can get 5mm of axial movement. |
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| Author: | VH770 [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
hi guys, okay thank you for the tip about the torque setting, i will make sure i finish up at 60ft/lbs with the hub nut. i will take off both L+R flanges and compare visually to see if the R spacer is missing. i've also ordered a spacer from karcraft. i didn't even look at the front side of the hub during disassembly recently, but my suspicion is now that there is no spacer there. thanks alot guys, hopefully it is as simple as a missing spacer! cheers |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
They are easy to lose when apart, they fall off the drive flange when you are not looking..
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| Author: | miniDave [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:35 pm ] |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:47 pm ] |
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I would give it 500 miles max, with no spacer... 
If it's loose in the bearings when all torqued up with proper spacer, read my wheel bearing thread in the how-to forum. The problem with old hubs is they often wear inside against the web, then the supplied spacer is too thick.... But this can be fixed, as I said in my thread. |
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| Author: | VH770 [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
hi guys, thanks for the help so far from everybody. today i fitted the outer spacer supplied by karcraft (its about 10mm thick, one side being flat, the other side being concave slightly with a flat outer edge - does this sound right?). when i pulled the flange off the CV spline there was no spacer there, it was just the outer bearing grease seal and the bearing sitting in the hub housing there. so anyway, i fitted the spacer with the flat side facing out (is that wrong? my gregory's manual doesnt mention any spacer, just shows one once in a cross sectional diagram), pushed the flange back on, tightened the hub nut to 60ft/lbs and took the car for a road test. it was immediately apparently (like previous road tests!) that the problem had not disappeared - even though when everything was fit up, i couldnt budge the wheel assembly by hand, and i'm not a small guy. so once again, upon further inspection, i found that the wheel assembly/driveshaft can STILL move horizontally ~10mm with respect to the hub housing. i'm totally confused, i guess i'm going to have to check that the inner bearing spacer is still there (the bearing was done by my mechanic about 3 months ago). if it is still there, i'm pretty much completely lost as to what the problem could be. i've taken some comparative photos so you can see what the left wheel (good) looks like assembled compared to the offending right wheel. note the space between the drum and the backing plate... (p.s. the wheel assembly cannot be pushed by hand further inwards to make the backing plate to drum space normal). good wheel (left): 
bad wheel (right): 
thanks for any advice in advance! cheers |
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| Author: | NAV [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:09 pm ] |
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I found a pic that may help explain what the guys are on about in reference to the spacer. At the bottom of the pic you can see the step from where the bearings sit (yes i know it's buggered) then sits against the flange. This is the spacer that falls off and causes grief as the good Doc said. Also worth a quick look is to see if your drive flange slides the whole way over the cv joint. I found it impossible to fit a new cv to an old flange that I had on my car as the spline had worn & wasn't straight. The old fcv fitted perfectly but the new one didn't. Odd but worth checking anyway. 
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| Author: | John Smidt [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:42 pm ] |
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NAV wrote: I found a pic that may help explain what the guys are on about in reference to the spacer.
At the bottom of the pic you can see the step from where the bearings sit (yes i know it's buggered) then sits against the flange. This is the spacer that falls off and causes grief as the good Doc said. Also worth a quick look is to see if your drive flange slides the whole way over the cv joint. I found it impossible to fit a new cv to an old flange that I had on my car as the spline had worn & wasn't straight. The old fcv fitted perfectly but the new one didn't. Odd but worth checking anyway. Also check if this Spacer or collar as it is sometimes called, Has a flat surface on the top, if this is worn then Replace it |
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| Author: | Hanra [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:59 pm ] |
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I found years ago I had front wheel bearings that had and extra section on one side of the inner part of the bearing. This extra bit was faced towards the other bearing which also had an extra bit. Those two bits were equal in width to the spacer. So in my case the spacer was not used as it did not allow the bearings to sit all the way home. Did that make sense???? 
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| Author: | John Smidt [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:26 pm ] |
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Hanra wrote: I found years ago I had front wheel bearings that had and extra section on one side of the inner part of the bearing. This extra bit was faced towards the other bearing which also had an extra bit. Those two bits were equal in width to the spacer. So in my case the spacer was not used as it did not allow the bearings to sit all the way home. Did that make sense????
on the drum brake model Mini And the 997 998 Cooper Originaly there was a spacer that fitted between the two bearings, And the spacer that fits up against the Drive flange, These days wheel bearings, most of the time are made with an inbuilt spacer on each bearing, when placed together the width would equal the width of the original spacer, The spacer that fits up against the drive flange must be used no matter what type of bearings you use, It is also important that the section of the drive flange that the bearings fits is in good order any substantial wear there will result in bearing failure very quickly, |
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| Author: | miniDave [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:52 pm ] |
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| Author: | John Smidt [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:25 pm ] |
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[][/quote]Yes but that is not the spacer that is talked about. That is the cover for the outer seal. The spacer is in the hub between the two bearings, not the drive flange. I will pull out and photograph on the weekend if this is not sorted by then.[/quote] The spacer that fits up against the drive Flange is Far more than a cover for the outer seal it is an integral part of setting the pre load on the bearings |
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| Author: | miniDave [ Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:27 pm ] |
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