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Painting a Mini (noobie question)
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Author:  bmn [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Painting a Mini (noobie question)
Hi,

I'm currently in the processing of restoring a Mini, and I have no experience in anything automotive (I'm hoping to learn as I do the car up). As a result I have some questions about painting a Mini.

I have stripped the car back to a bare shell:
Image

I would now like to start fixing all the rusted spots in the car, along with priming it ready for painting.

I have called a local automotive paint shop, and they say that I need to sand the car back, apply etch primer, then 2pack(?) primer, then the final coat. They also said all this needs to be done with a spray gun, and not a brush. Here lies the problem.

I would like to work on the car in sections. Once I am happy with a specific area, and that all the rust has been cleaned up or welded, I want to be able to protect that part of the car with paint (I assume etch primer & 2pac primer). As a result, I would need to have the spray gear ready after each little section, which might take me a few days to clean up, by which time the rust would have started returning.

Ideally I would like to fix up a rusted area (if it needs going), apply etch primer with a brush, then move to the next area and repeat.Once all the areas are finished, I would then like to get someone in professionally to spray the car with 2pack primer and the final coat. On the same day if possible.

Am I missing something here? Surely there must be an easier way to do this as I don't have access to spray gear.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Author:  simon k [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Painting a Mini (noobie question)
bmn wrote:
apply etch primer with a brush


nah... buy your etch primer in spray cans, get good stuff from an auto paints shop, not rubbish from a hardware store (costs the same anyway) - expect 1 can to cover about the area of 2 door panels
Author:  bmn [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
and will etch primer seal from rust until I'm ready for the 2pac primer?
Author:  belgord [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Depends on how long each section is left for. But no etch primer is porus and will absorb moisture and has to be sealed with a 2pak primer which will hold out a lot longer than the etch but it also is porus.

If you can keep it in a clean dry shed then this will help in holding the rust at bay but not stop it. The PaintShop will probably rub back the car and re prime/paint when they do the job (don’t quote me on that :) )

Hope that helps
Author:  DTrain [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
i stripped my roof this week and applied red oxide epoxy primer with a can and within 2 days there were patches that had formed rust under the epoxy. now im sure the surface wasnt perfect before applying the epoxy but everything was ground down with a wire wheel, then 40grit sandpaper and wiped with wax and grease remover and cloths. maybe it was just the size of the area and coverage wasnt adequate. at the end of the day i stripped it back and coated it with brush on red oxide primer - good and thick coats as to leave a smooth consistency. no signs of discolouration days later.
Author:  BigGig [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Unfortunately there are no short cuts with this type of work. You need to be prepared for a lot of stripping, cleaning, rust repair, cleaning, cleaning and priming (after cleaning). You will be using a spray gun and cleaning it often. Make sure you have lots of thinners for cleaning (there's that word again) and a wax and grease remover for cleaning the body.

You can try one of the metal cleaning/conditioning products - I used POR Metal Ready which leaves a zinc coating for corrosion protection to give you more time, some people don't think it is that effective but I found it worked OK.

If you use an aerosol etch primer you have to work quickly on the rest of the car as they don't give as good protection. But they are more user friendly than spray guns.

Most car shops are happy to put the primer and top coats on, providing they have the time but you can wait months even years, in my friends case, before they can fit you in. But be warned they will often just put the paint over whatever work you have done so if it not perfect you will have to live with it.

Good on you for giving it a go, but my advice to you is do lots of research - there is plenty on the internet or you could look for books on the subject.

Body work can be the most time consuming, frustrating part of a resto but it is also one of the most rewarding in my opinion.

Good luck and keep asking questions.

Cheers,

Gig
Author:  74snail [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
The two main points are
1- POR 15 is the best rust treatment from bare metal to primer.

2- Spray painting should not be done at home , Isocyonates are extremely
toxic and odourless , leave it to a spray shop, budget approx
$5- $6000 for a professional job.
Author:  bmn [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Great! Thanks for all the info!

So from what I can gather, if I do the following I should be right.

Go and buy some etch primer and 2pack primer in spray cans. Then start removing the rust myself with a sander/grinder. Once it is in a condition good enough to rust convert, apply the rust converter, then wait a few hrs, apply the etch primer, and then apply the 2 pack primer (from the spray cans). Then do this for all affected areas. Once I am happy with all the areas, sand the 2pack primer so its flush with the bodywork, and the remainder of the of the car back to bare metal, put it on a trailer and take it to the paint shop ready to be primed and professionally painted.

The car is currently coated with a protective paint, but I'm not sure if any rust exists under it so I'm going to need to sand all the panels back, I'm just scared about painting doors etc with the spray bottle rather than proper spray gear for reasons that you have all mentioned.
Author:  badassmini [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
whats your budget.

Don't buy cheap crap etch primer spend a few dollars more and buy some quality stuff. If your painting the car in 2pak a good brand to by is PPG thats all i use and thats all we use at work to.

PPG has a good etch primer that you can spray onto bare metal and you can leave it for a few weeks befor having to spray your primer over the top. Remember with 2pak after it drys it must be scuffed back befor the next coat of paint is applied.

Like BigGig said clean, clean, clean, you can never clean a panel to much apply prepsol with one rag whipe off with a dry rag. Preperation is the key to a good long lasting paint job.

(sorry for my spelling)

cheers Dan
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
if you were going to paint it at home you can "legally" use acrylic paint. Its a lot of effort but if done properly can look as good if not better than 2-pac (doesnt get that slight orange peel you see in 2pacs)

Rust removal if your not game at grinding down panels buy some De-Ox Gel (sold by Por15) its great stuff but time consuming (requires leaving for 12hrs or so before washing it off.

Brenton
Author:  BigGig [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:33 am ]
Post subject: 
2 pak does not come in cans, It is a 2 part paint system which uses a hardener. You have to mix them together. (Sort of like araldite). You can't legally paint it at home. The stuff is very harmful. You need a full air fed mask.
You can paint single pak Acrylic which I would recommend for first time painting - it is easier to fix mistakes and can be cut back and polished easily as that's what it is designed for.
2 pak is designed for a high gloss finish straight from the gun but it is much harder to work with if you need to fix mistakes.

Gig
Author:  garrathj [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 
You can get ISO free 2-pak from Protec, I have used it and am happy with the results. http://www.protec.com.au/

Use the 620 Barrcryl topcoat and the 466 Parabuild ICF High Solids Primer Filler.

Cheers
Author:  bmn [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks again for all the tips. I feel as though I'm a bit overwhelmed with all the possibilities!

I guess it is probably worth talking to the people who will be doing the final coat as to how that would like it prepared from my end so as to not require a re-sand once its in the shop.

I had one last question about painting/sanding. The floor of my mini has some sort of coating over the top of it, not just metal. It appears to be some kind of sealant/tar. I'm just wondering whether I should be scraping the sealant back, then sanding the paint back, repainting it, and finally re-coating it with the sealant. The reason is that I'm concerned that there might be rust under it as areas look a bit discoloured.
You can see the sealant in this picture:
Image

Thanks again for all your help guys, these forums are an amazing bank of Mini knowledge!
Author:  AEG163job [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
The floors in a Mini are very thin. I wouldn't mind betting there is rust and pin holes under that sealant. You have to remember that metal is now around 40 years old.

I have the same situation with a Mk1 S shell, and I am dreading the job of stripping the floor. It gets down to a question of how much messy, time consuming work you want to take on, or whether your budget can afford to have it professionally stripped ie sand blasted. The other question to ask yourself is whether doing a full resto is worth it - probably not as you are unlikely to ever recoup the cost when/if selling the car. If that is the situation, i would tend to "let sleeping dogs lie" ie if the floor appears structurally OK just clean it up as best you can and paint over it.

On the other hand, if time is not a consideration (my labour cost recovery rate is $zero), and not restoring the floor "properly" is going to keep you awake at night, start stripping!
Author:  BigGig [ Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try using a heat gun to soften the sealer and a scraper to remove it. When you have got as much off as possibble like that, use solvent thinners or maybe turps to remove the rest with rags. Sounds easy - takes ages.
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