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Victoria, flipfronts and club permits - oh my
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Author:  poeee [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Victoria, flipfronts and club permits - oh my
So I could (if I decide to) be buying an ex rally Mini. It's always been a Geelong based car, was built and rallied with a turbo motor by the dude who owns rallycarb/rallymotors here in Geelong. The car now is a rolling shell (7.5" discs on the front). It's a Clubman, not sure of the year.

So the thing has a fibreglass flip front and a roll cage (bolt in as far as I remember).

I'm sure the cage is easy enough removed if need be.

What are peoples experiences with getting a flip fronted Mini through the registration process, preferably the club permit route?

Then there's Hay. Would I be frowned upon bringing a flip front, being 'lightened' and all??
Author:  paul_ewins [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Registration and Club Permit are two completely different things in Victoria. A club permit is a permit to drive an unregistered car on public roads. The intent of the CH scheme is that it allows people to drive Classic/Historic cars on the road on Club outings without requiring them to get full registration. The cars are supposed to be over 25 years old, so all Oz made mini/mokes are OK, and should not be modified.

That last bit about not being modified is interpreted in different ways by different clubs. From the VMCI perspective something like a cage would generally be fine and I suspect a flip front would be too as these were modifications often made at the time. Putting in a Honda motor would not, as this is a modern modification.

Your car should also be able to get through a roadworthy, although I can't remember whether this is actually required by Vicroads. Certainly the club will want to know that the car is safe to drive on the road. The appropriate people to ask are very busy with Phillip Island at the moment but I can ask the question later if you like.

As for full registration, you would be best to front up to your local Vicroads and ask them about the cage and the flip front. Regardless of what head office says they will be the ones inspecting the car. This may make life easier or you may have someone like our local guy (Burwood) who is very pedantic and seems to hate Minis.
Author:  Dylans Clubby [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
AFAIK you don't need a RWC to run a car on club plates. if you're only intending this car to be a raceer, i dont know if i'd worry about it that much...
Author:  Mick [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
From the VicRoads website.

However VMCI currently requires a roadworthy from the club permit applicant before the forms can be signed by the club.

I can understand this position as I myself would never put my head on the chopping block for other people's vehicles.....


http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/Permits/ClubPermits.htm wrote:
Applying for a club permit

To apply for a Club permit you will need to complete a Club Permit Registration form together with:

* written verification by the club secretary (or person authorised by VicRoads) that the applicant for the club permit is a member of the car club
* in the case of a club historic vehicle that is not a street rod, a current certificate of roadworthiness or a letter from a scrutineer authorised by the club, stating that the vehicle is safe for use on the road
* in the case of a application made in respect of a street rod, a Street Rod Inspection certificate issued by the Australian Street Rod Federation (ASRF), Technical Advisory Committee or a report from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory establishing that the vehicle is in fact, a modified vehicle, ie modified in excess of the level prescribed in the Vehicle Standards Information No.8. (VSI8) document[PDF, 1.06 MB, 6pp.]. Club scrutineers can assist in this requirement. ASRF can be contacted by calling (03) 9793 6258.
* Club Permit fee - refer to Permits (Club, Rally and Unregistered Vehicle Permits)
Author:  poeee [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I can grasp the ideas/reasoning behind the club permit scheme, and know the limitations (my fathers had CH permit cars for over 20 years, although standard).

The idea that I have trouble getting my head around is the definition of what is eligible.

I’ve been motorsport events where rally cars (for eg) on normal club permit turn up, and they are very far from standard. I guess this car was modified more than 25 years ago, so does that make the car as a whole (in modified form) a historic car??? :lol:

Would the flip front and cage be part of the RWC?
Author:  Mick [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it's modified from standard enough to warrant engineering then yes it would be part of the RWC. Technically finding a club which does not require a RWC will put you in the same bind. The inspecting officer from the club should determine that the car meets roadworthy as well. I don't believe he is commissioned to grant waivers from roadworthy rulings.

I hate to be a wet blanket, I've just got to says it I guess to keep up appearances :)
Author:  doogie [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Poeee, up here in NSW we seem to have a historical proof system, if you can find or supply historical documentation, eg pictures, sales dockets etc from back in the day its usually OK, i would assume fiberglass fronts & panels were readily available back then.

Doogie
Author:  poeee [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mick wrote:
I hate to be a wet blanket, I've just got to says it I guess to keep up appearances :)


You and your appearances!

The way I look at it, and the way it should be, is that if a car isn't good enough or is modified in whatever way to not meet RWC and be able to be registered normally, it shouldn't be on club permit.

In this case, it's not a car that would be used at all out side of where a club permit would allow you to drive the car, so i've got to consider its eligibility to obtain such a permit along with the state of roadworthyness.
Author:  girtp [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
FYI............ About 6 months ago I went through the process of "CH" reg for a 65 Cooper S Rally car, Yes, it has a cage, seats , harness and all the "rally" equipment (no flip front however)...... I had similar discussions on this topic and the "route" of a scrutineer was near impossible from my understanding, however I legeally and genuinally got a Vic Road worthy certificate for the car, as it was actually Roadworthy, Alot of the current ADR's for cars today are not the same as from the 60's which is what the car needs to pass.........

Even with the RWC I was still a little unsure of how the Man at Vic roads would feel when I tow it to the Vic Roads for an inspectition......... Goods news is.......... No inspection required, Just paperwork and the hand over the plates........ But remember, Its a PERMIT to drive an UNREGISTERED vehicle to "CLUB RELATED" event ONLY...
Author:  Dolled Up [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
As Mick has said for CH plate cars you need a RWC prior to getting your CH permit.
In regards to the roll cage and flip front it depends on who you get your RWC from as you may need an engineers certificate to aquire said certificate.
Im not sure but if the vehicle has some historical significance and you have proof and dates if you can get the car through with the flip front and r/cage.
Poeee is the bonnet separate from the front guards and front support panel? In other words can youi open it without flipping the whole front section to access the engine bay??
Author:  poeee [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll have to check the photos whether or not the bonnet is a seperate piece.

Why is that?
Author:  Dolled Up [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
poeee wrote:
I'll have to check the photos whether or not the bonnet is a seperate piece.

Why is that?


If the bonnet is seperate to the rest of the front there is no need to show that the front does flip seperatley to the rest of the body unless your asked when the vehicle is inspected for RWC.

Do you have an RWC inspector that you use often? Might pay to go and seek thier advice/opinion on the cage and the front.
Author:  poeee [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would have thought that would be beside the point, as the whole front end is cut off!
Author:  Dolled Up [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
There should be bracing from the bulk head to the front of the subframe but there is really no point in guessing .....need some pictures so we can "nut" it through or have more of an idea with what you are dealing with.
May end up needing an engineers report for the mod/s.
Author:  bnicho [ Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
A club permit car CAN be modified. It is up to the club to decide if an RWC is required. Some clubs (not VMCI) have their own scrutineer who decides if the car is safe enough to let out on the road.

In the case of a flip front you may have to speak to a few clubs and see what they say. They may require an engineers certificate, or they may not, dependant on how they interpret the rules.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/Permits/ClubPermits.htm
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