Here's a photo of one of the "orange box" prototypes around 1958
You can see the engine in backwards, the zenith carb as used by Austin and the A30 grille.
Tim
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| Author: | girtp [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Austin Cooper Mini |
Why, how and what made them make the Austin?... Im just interested to know how it come about ? from what I can it appears to be "cosmetic" differences ? Thanks PG |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:04 pm ] |
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Back in the late 50s, Austin and Morris were 2 separate brands within the BMC group. There was a distribution channel for each.. it's called marketing. So, some places got Morris Minis (like us) other places got Austin Minis (like USA). UK made both brands. In Oz we got Austin in some car models, Morris in others, also there were Wolseleys, and MG also. eg. we had Morris Major, Austin Lancer, Wolseley 1500. All the same car really, trim levels aside. Main Austin/Morris differences in Minis were cosmetic, as you said. |
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| Author: | girtp [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
To draw a long bow....... Lexcen Toyota & VN Commadore Ford Mavrick & Nissan Patrol Is this fair to state ? Thanks Doc |
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| Author: | Mike_Byron [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
girtp wrote: To draw a long bow.......
Lexcen Toyota & VN Commadore Ford Mavrick & Nissan Patrol Is this fair to state ? Thanks Doc Not exactly - ownership of motor industry giants is fairly messy at the moment but that aside the current rebadging is slightly different. With the Austin/Morris thing the cars were made in the same factory side by side by the same people. They were sold through different marketing and sales outlets but at the end of the day the proceeds of the sales went into the same buck - British Motor Corporation BMC With the scenario you suggest its different - Ford sales proceeds go to Ford, Nissan sales proceeds go to Nissan etc. There is obviously conclusion between the companies and inter company sales. Mike |
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| Author: | mini-mini [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:40 pm ] |
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girtp wrote: To draw a long bow.......
Lexcen Toyota & VN Commadore Ford Mavrick & Nissan Patrol Is this fair to state ? Thanks Doc Not really. The examples above are of two totally separate manufacturers sharing a common design. The Mini story was one of various marketing directions within one group, that being BMC. Other examples are Honda/Acura, Opel/Holden etc. Differences between the Morris and Austin where simply cosmetic including, different badging (bonnet, boot and steering wheel), as well as front grill design. |
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| Author: | Timbo [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Some people argue that the Mini was really an Austin, just badged as a Morris for different markets. Austin came out on top following the merger that formed BMC. Leonard Lord was the boss at Austin and he took over BMC. It was no secret that he hated Morris. It was Lord's decision to build the Mini and he recruited Issigonis to design it. Despite Issigonis having designed the Morris Minor, the Mini has more in common with the Austin A35 than the Minor. It uses the Morris derived SU carburettor, but much of the rest of the design (A series engine and gear train, interior appearance, size) is Austin A30 derived. Originally in the UK the Morris cars were built to a slightly lower spec than the Austins. The Austin had pressed metal trim on the door pockets whereas the Morris had black plastic, the Morris had a cheap painted pressed metal grille while the Austin had a chromed 'crinkly' grille all pointing to it being lower in the pecking order than Austin. Tim |
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| Author: | girtp [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Very interesting stuff. My questions have been answered well and truly... Any truth in the "story/urban myth" that the A-Series engine was actually originally designed to face west -east not east west ? Paul |
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| Author: | Austin850 [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I'd always heard that the engine reversal was to stop the carbies icing up but recently somebody (can't remember who) told me that this was rubbish, it was actually to take some strain off the gearbox as they kept breaking and that BMC fabricated or embellished the frozen carby issue to hide the fact that the gearbox wasn't all that strong. |
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| Author: | Mike_Byron [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:38 pm ] |
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Yep that bit is true They had problems with the carby sucking water and problems with acess to the dizzy for timing and points replacement. Also I think there was something about gearbox linkaging. Photos of the prototype have been posted on here and on other websites. Mike |
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| Author: | 66S [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi PG, You may not know that BMC Australia built Austin badged Mini's for New Zealand as well as Morris's. Asa pointed out previously, the Mini probably owes more to Austin than Morris and even the designation ADO15 is an Austin Drawing Office tag. Regards Al |
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| Author: | Angusdog [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:51 pm ] |
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Other cars have similar 'truths'. For example, the Volkswagen was originally intended to be 'the people's washing machine' but engineers couldn't cure its tendency to 'walk' around the laundry floor. So they changed their marketing and a legend was born. |
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| Author: | Timbo [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Here's a photo of one of the "orange box" prototypes around 1958
You can see the engine in backwards, the zenith carb as used by Austin and the A30 grille. Tim |
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| Author: | girtp [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
It certinally would of been easy to get the bottom hose on and off, Timing points and oil filter may of been a little tricky ! Thanks again |
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| Author: | Mick [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If they had kept that front end the way it was, in my mind the mini would have been another long forgotten quirky BMC memory by now...its just awful. |
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| Author: | Timbo [ Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I don't think that front was ever intended for production, one of the earlier iterations of XC9003 looks pretty much like the Mini as it was released. I think the orange boxes were test mules, disguised to resemble A35s, like those cars you see in motoring magazine spy shots with bits masked over and squiggly paint. Tim |
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