Why, how and what made them make the Austin?...

Im just interested to know how it come about ? from what I can it appears to be "cosmetic" differences ?

Thanks

PG

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1964 Grp Nb Cooper S
1976 911 3.6 Circuit Car
1969 911T Grp Sb Historic Racer
2009 LC200 V8 TDI.... 660nm..
2011 Golf VI, TSI

Back in the late 50s, Austin and Morris were 2 separate brands within the BMC group.
There was a distribution channel for each.. it's called marketing.
So, some places got Morris Minis (like us) other places got Austin Minis (like USA). UK made both brands.

In Oz we got Austin in some car models, Morris in others, also there were Wolseleys, and MG also.
eg. we had Morris Major, Austin Lancer, Wolseley 1500. All the same car really, trim levels aside.

Main Austin/Morris differences in Minis were cosmetic, as you said.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

To draw a long bow.......

Lexcen Toyota & VN Commadore
Ford Mavrick & Nissan Patrol

Is this fair to state ?

Thanks Doc

_________________
1964 Grp Nb Cooper S
1976 911 3.6 Circuit Car
1969 911T Grp Sb Historic Racer
2009 LC200 V8 TDI.... 660nm..
2011 Golf VI, TSI

Not exactly - ownership of motor industry giants is fairly messy at the moment but that aside the current rebadging is slightly different.

With the Austin/Morris thing the cars were made in the same factory side by side by the same people. They were sold through different marketing and sales outlets but at the end of the day the proceeds of the sales went into the same buck - British Motor Corporation BMC

With the scenario you suggest its different - Ford sales proceeds go to Ford, Nissan sales proceeds go to Nissan etc. There is obviously conclusion between the companies and inter company sales.

Mike

Not really. The examples above are of two totally separate manufacturers sharing a common design. The Mini story was one of various marketing directions within one group, that being BMC. Other examples are Honda/Acura, Opel/Holden etc.

Differences between the Morris and Austin where simply cosmetic including, different badging (bonnet, boot and steering wheel), as well as front grill design.

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In the garage:
1970 Morris Cooper S MK2 | 2010 MINI Cooper JCW Challenge Edition

Now with new owners:
1964 Morris 850 Van | 1965 Morris Cooper S MK1 | 1976 Leyland Mini | 1999 Rover Mini Cooper Classic | 2006 MINI Cooper JCW

Some people argue that the Mini was really an Austin, just badged as a Morris for different markets. Austin came out on top following the merger that formed BMC. Leonard Lord was the boss at Austin and he took over BMC. It was no secret that he hated Morris.

It was Lord's decision to build the Mini and he recruited Issigonis to design it. Despite Issigonis having designed the Morris Minor, the Mini has more in common with the Austin A35 than the Minor. It uses the Morris derived SU carburettor, but much of the rest of the design (A series engine and gear train, interior appearance, size) is Austin A30 derived.

Originally in the UK the Morris cars were built to a slightly lower spec than the Austins. The Austin had pressed metal trim on the door pockets whereas the Morris had black plastic, the Morris had a cheap painted pressed metal grille while the Austin had a chromed 'crinkly' grille all pointing to it being lower in the pecking order than Austin.

Tim

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1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian

Very interesting stuff. My questions have been answered well and truly...

Any truth in the "story/urban myth" that the A-Series engine was actually originally designed to face west -east not east west ?

Paul

_________________
1964 Grp Nb Cooper S
1976 911 3.6 Circuit Car
1969 911T Grp Sb Historic Racer
2009 LC200 V8 TDI.... 660nm..
2011 Golf VI, TSI

I'd always heard that the engine reversal was to stop the carbies icing up but recently somebody (can't remember who) told me that this was rubbish, it was actually to take some strain off the gearbox as they kept breaking and that BMC fabricated or embellished the frozen carby issue to hide the fact that the gearbox wasn't all that strong.

Yep that bit is true
They had problems with the carby sucking water and problems with acess to the dizzy for timing and points replacement.

Also I think there was something about gearbox linkaging.

Photos of the prototype have been posted on here and on other websites.

Mike

Hi PG,
You may not know that BMC Australia built Austin badged Mini's for New Zealand as well as Morris's. Asa pointed out previously, the Mini probably owes more to Austin than Morris and even the designation ADO15 is an Austin Drawing Office tag.

Regards
Al

Other cars have similar 'truths'. For example, the Volkswagen was originally intended to be 'the people's washing machine' but engineers couldn't cure its tendency to 'walk' around the laundry floor. So they changed their marketing and a legend was born.

Here's a photo of one of the "orange box" prototypes around 1958



You can see the engine in backwards, the zenith carb as used by Austin and the A30 grille.

Tim

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1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian

It certinally would of been easy to get the bottom hose on and off, Timing points and oil filter may of been a little tricky !

Thanks again

_________________
1964 Grp Nb Cooper S
1976 911 3.6 Circuit Car
1969 911T Grp Sb Historic Racer
2009 LC200 V8 TDI.... 660nm..
2011 Golf VI, TSI

If they had kept that front end the way it was, in my mind the mini would have been another long forgotten quirky BMC memory by now...its just awful.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

I don't think that front was ever intended for production, one of the earlier iterations of XC9003 looks pretty much like the Mini as it was released. I think the orange boxes were test mules, disguised to resemble A35s, like those cars you see in motoring magazine spy shots with bits masked over and squiggly paint.

Tim

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1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian