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Insurance help
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62591		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Insurance help
Ive been poking around with my mini in the last few weeks, it was my daily but i took it off the road temporarily to fix a few things on it. While i was fiddling around ive found a few things, like rust in a few panels.

My question is, if i were to have an accident will my insurance be void because theres more rust than i told them? I said it had a few rust bubbles coming through but its worse than i thought. Im insured with shannons on fully comp with salvage retention.
Thanks for any advice,
Joe
Author:  blueminivan [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't know for sure but I'd think that if the rust isn't in any structural components then it shouldn't be to much of a problem.
Author:  Lockie91 [ Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm with shannos as well, and they do care about rust, but so long as the car isan't at the stage where its going to fall apart in an accident due to the rust it should be fine..
Author:  superSeven [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:20 am ]
Post subject: 
you may have problems if the rust is bad enough to deem the car unroadworthy, as this is what the insurance is valid for, a roadworthy car.
Author:  GT mowog [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Generally insurance companies look for any cause not to pay, but if it's only a smaller claim then it would come down to the assessor.

Your policy does ask you 'Is the vehicle in good condition?' or 'Are there any defects?' or something similar. There is also a question 'Is there anything else that you need to tell us that could affect this policy?'

So by not correctly or completely answering these questions gives them an out and I do know of a case where the insurance company took the insured to court on the basis of fraud, not on the claim that they made, but of the statements the insured made in their policy re-newal. The insurance company did win this case.

So I would suggest (although you would be loathed to) contact your insurer and chat to them. If it's not structual or otherwise affect the performance of the car in an accident, it's likely that they won't be concerned, but let them make that call.
Author:  Mike_Byron [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Why not approach this from another angle - simply get the rust repaired. If its only at the bubble stage then get it cleaned off - you dont need corporate lawyers in a court appearance objecting to your claim.

Rust only gets worse over time if you dont stop it now and in twelve months its a much bigger job.

Mike
Author:  Moriarty [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:48 am ]
Post subject: 
I agree with the previous posts - legally, you have an obligation to act in good faith and if you have failed to tell them something that would a) result in a higher premium OR b) them choosing not to insure you, then any insurance company can simply pay you less or even ignore an insurance claim. Not fun and you never know until they hit you with it. :cry: Sure, we've all been stuffed around by insurance companies at some point but that's the way it is, so no point shooting yourself in the foot.

Get someone to have a look at the rust damage (maybe some fellow Ausminiers?), which should give you an idea of how hard it will be to fix, $$$ involved etc. If you are going to leave it as is, I think you should call Shannons to let them know, even if they just note it on file and say its OK, because then they are informed and you're covered. But as Mike_Byron says, if you can get it fixed now while the car is off the road, you won't have the problem anymore and it will solve your insurance dilemma too :D

Oh, and if your car is off the road for a while, you should be able to switch to cheaper "laid up" cover for as long as the car doesn't move under its own power (its own running engine). I'm with Shannons too and for a coupla hundred bucks a year my resto project is covered in the shed at home, on the back of a truck to the sandblaster, at the panel shop, pushed up the driveway, getting tuned at the mechanic etc. Just as long as I don't actually drive it anywhere. Worth thinking about :wink:
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks everyone for the replies. '
I think i will give shannons a call, but its likely itll be pulled off the road.
I put a hole in the boot floor yesterday when i was poking around with a screwdriver, and the rear quarter panels are the same.
Its currently my daily driver while i build my starlet mini, which is at the bare shell stage. So i could use that shell with the roundy as a donor.
Or has anyone got a rust free roundy shell they want to sell?
Author:  Lillee [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I beg to differ!

If the rust makes the car unroadworthy, then it is the fualt of the person who allowed your car to pass it's annual roadworthiness inspection for registration (NSW it's Pinkslip).

Technically if you are not an expert then you cannot possibly be liable to know if the car is indeed roadworthy or not due to rust. If you pass your inspection and the car is registered as roadworthy, the insurance company will have to take this up with the mechanic who signed it off. He will be insured himself as that is the whole point.

Think of it from this way: if Aunt Mavis registered her car and got it road worthy, how can insurance refuse to pay her for lack of knowledge that her passenger B panel was rusted through, hence causing the car to veer left and hit a tree? What's a passenger B Panel? is what Aunt Mavis would say. It's her mechanics fault for letting it pass!
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Lillee wrote:
I beg to differ!

If the rust makes the car unroadworthy, then it is the fualt of the person who allowed your car to pass it's annual roadworthiness inspection for registration (NSW it's Pinkslip).

Technically if you are not an expert then you cannot possibly be liable to know if the car is indeed roadworthy or not due to rust. If you pass your inspection and the car is registered as roadworthy, the insurance company will have to take this up with the mechanic who signed it off. He will be insured himself as that is the whole point.

Think of it from this way: if Aunt Mavis registered her car and got it road worthy, how can insurance refuse to pay her for lack of knowledge that her passenger B panel was rusted through, hence causing the car to veer left and hit a tree? What's a passenger B Panel? is what Aunt Mavis would say. It's her mechanics fault for letting it pass!


That thought did got through my head, I could play dumb and pretend i never knew about it. But then i realised ive already told them i restored the car with my dad (only thing we didnt do was the bodywork).
And QLD doesnt have yearly inspections, theres only queensland transport cars driving round doing random checks.
Author:  watto [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
I would think that now you know abut the rust you should repair it, since it's already off the road, and then tell Shannons that it has had rust repairs, which may even increase the agreed value of the car. You've already told them it had some rust bubbles, so they would have taken that into account when valuing the car. They are not silly, and would have realised that if it has rust bubbles showing then it is likely to have rust underneath.

However, now that you know that it has rust, if you just put the car back on the road and then have a crash, if it can be shown that the rust has contributed in any way to the crash, or to the severity of the damaged caused by the crash, and this conversation was to become known to them and they could show that you had previous knowledge of the rust and did nothing about it, and did not notify them, then you would not have a legal leg to stand on.

You do have a duty of care to disclose anything you know, or could be reasonably expected to know, about that could be taken into account for the insurance value or premium. As you said, you restored the car, so if they found there was rust in the car that you should have known about, even if you say you didn't, then they would be able to avoid any payout.

So, I would suggest the simplest thing in the long term, though it means a lot more work in the short term, is to fix the rust.

My 5c (inflation) worth.

Watto.
:shock:
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah it's a bit of a messy situation I'm in. But it was bound to happen. At the moment I'm leaning towards taking it off the road long term and finishing my starlet mini, then getting back to it. It's bad enough being in a crash in a mini, let alone one that will buckle on any impact.
Thank you for all of your replies.
Joe
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