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Feasible repair option or horrible horrible bodge?
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63464		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Feasible repair option or horrible horrible bodge?
Hi,
Ive currently got my deluxe off the road that im going to fix up when ive got more time away from uni and more money for it.
The big problem for it is the floors, sills, and the seams. As both are pretty rusty. The floors are easy, ill just weld some braces in then cut out and weld new panels in.
But the solution to the rust in the seams is a harder fix. I thought i could deseam it, and stitch weld 2'' plates up inside the pillars, and seal the external panel gaps.
Cheers for any input.
Joe
Author:  Phat Kat [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Howdy,

With your seams, how much rust is there, does it run the full length of the seam or is it just in few places and has it spread into the surrounding panels?

De-seaming is not a small job, (ask micowen).

Have you taken off the seam covers yet?

If need be you could remove the covers, remove all the rust you can with a wire well or sea weed disks, then treat it with deoxidine, and any places along the seam where the seam has disapeared to the rust, deseam that small section (as doing little spots here and there is easy) and then fit the cover back over the remaining seam.

If you de seam it the way you are suggesting, you will not (or shouldn't be able to) get it engineered. The welds need to be full length.
Author:  micowen [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
in my opinion, you should only deseam as a necessary evil. Only when its a last resort to keep it away from the scrap heap.
Got some pictures to show us?
Easier for everyone to give good ideas if we can see the problem.
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
The rust has spread into the surrounding panels on the front sides, and the a panels are looking pretty ropey. Im not game to take the paint off as i wont be touching the car for a while, im just weighing up costs and ideas for it.

I think the seam covers are too far gone to reuse, as a previous owner just bogged them up into the right shape, i didnt notice it until i started fixing up some of the paint.
Author:  Phat Kat [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
blue_deluxe wrote:
The rust has spread into the surrounding panels on the front sides, and the a panels are looking pretty ropey. Im not game to take the paint off as i wont be touching the car for a while, im just weighing up costs and ideas for it.

I think the seam covers are too far gone to reuse, as a previous owner just bogged them up into the right shape, i didnt notice it until i started fixing up some of the paint.


No thats fair enough. If you're not ready to make a start leave the paint on there. The paint thats on there will stop it rusting (well, rusting much more).

The issue there is, that to effectively de seam the body, the panels around the seams must be in good condition, otherwise the body will end up weaker.

You can buy new seam covers, so I wouldn't be worried about that.

Like Mick said... any chance of some photo's? :)
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ill get some tomoro.
Author:  micowen [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
If deseaming is the only option, then we can talk you through what we think is the best ways. I think, if done properly, it is a big job, that requires patients!
Has anyone ever cut of "infected" parts of a seam, and welded something like flat bar on it to bring it back to original shape, design, etc?
Just a thought.
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thats what i was thinking, welding flat plate up the inside, bent to shape then go nuts with the welder on the inside and outside.

Forgot to mention itd get at least a rear cage if not 6 point. And it wouldnt be that much harder to support the welded areas. But thats borderline spaceframe.
Author:  1018cc [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
You may want to talk to an engineer about the roll cage idea. Sometimes it can be hard to get them engineered because they have to be at least a certain distance away from the occupant's heads.
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ive had a brief conversation with an engineer about one for my starlet conversion, but ill mention them in more detail when i talk to them again.

For record he only wanted to know about minimum tube thicknesses and wall thicknesses.
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ive taken a few pics today
Image
I sanded this side back and bogged it up
Image
Image
Image
Any input is welcome
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bog doesn't last, neither does it have any structural strength.
You could weld patches in once you cut the holes back to (hopefully) sound metal.
If it's worse than that, you are looking at cutting donor panels from another car, or welding in new ones.
Or, find a better shell and swap all the mechanicals to it.
Author:  blue_deluxe [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was planning to cut the rust out, then butt weld plates across the seams on the inside and outside, to deseam it at the same time. I would need to spend a ridiculous amount of time and money to repair the panels.

I have thought about a reshell, but it just wouldnt be the same car. Ive been fixing it up with my dad since i was 14.
Author:  poeee [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
It doesn't look too bad. Fix it for sure. Easy.

Go buy a decent mig and go crazy. Even I can do it.
Author:  Phat Kat [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
Bog doesn't last, neither does it have any structural strength.
You could weld patches in once you cut the holes back to (hopefully) sound metal.
If it's worse than that, you are looking at cutting donor panels from another car, or welding in new ones.
Or, find a better shell and swap all the mechanicals to it.


+1

looking at the photos there, you can see a few place's where the guy has found rust and just put bog over it without treating it first. :x Aghhhh,,,, so what happens there is the panel keeps rusting out from under the bog.

Its fix-able yes.

As far as deseaming it... well, I think there is enough left in the surrounding panels to do it... but the top of the drivers side A pillar is troubling.

If I were doing the job, I'd;

1) hit it with the wire wheel to get all the paint and bog off the area

2) get the seam covers off (you have to do this,, I understand that you weren't keen on it cos they were bogeged on, but you need to see whats under them)

3) remove all the rust possible with the wire wheel (unless you want it sand blasted) then treat with deoxidine

4) asses whats left. and don't be gentle. Get a phillips screw driver and go Mount Druitt on it. Poke the rusty areas and try and push them in with the screw driver. If they are in good nick, yes, you will be able to move them a bit with the screw driver, but if you can full on bend it and it doesn't return then you need to look at your options.

You can replace the panel (if need be) or you can patch it (always an easier option.)

I know that looks extreme, but you need to get all the crap off it before you know where you stand. Otherwise, if you just give it a rub with a wire brush and put some more bog on it, it will look like this again in a few months or a few years (at best).
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