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Anyone had this happen?
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Author:  Bubbacluby [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Anyone had this happen?
In my recently built GT motor (everything was rebuilt) it took me 1000miles around sydney etc and engine didnt miss a beat.

I get it home and then a few days later i go to check my oil and i have about 10mm on the end of the dipstick and It's leaking all over dads pavers and I dont know where from.

Im thinking surely I couldnt have leaked out 4lts of oil. Thought wow something major must have went wrong.

Take it out to my mate warrick agustin and tell him I think a seal has let go or i have cracked my diff or somthing cause i got no oil.

When he gets time he looks at it and my sump is full of petrol and the petrol has played havoc with the driveshaft seals causing the leak.

What happened was because our driveway is on lean and when parked if my tanks are full they are higher than the carbs.
So something had gotten stuck under the needle and seat and wasnt sealing allowing the petrol to flow through the carb into the head, down the open valve and down the bore into my sump.

It wasnt that i had no oil it was just that the petrol was sitting on top of if and couldnt see it very well on the dipstick.(you woulda thought i'd smelt it)

So what i thought was a partial engine rebuild (in which i was going to change the cam) ended up being just an oil and filter change, draining of my cooler, and replacement of the drive shaft seals. So worked out not costing much at all

Im glad i didnt drive it like it was, because was told i could have seized/spun/wrecked a bearing

I now have a petrol filter awaiting fitment

just wondering if anyone else has ever had there sump fill with petrol?

Brenton
Author:  Tombo [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Saw it in a holden v8 once, but on this one the oil and fuel was mixing making the oil level look high.
Author:  GT mowog [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Seen it a few times with a mechanical fuel pump, when the diaphram cracks .

I have also seen in on Generators in a couple of boats (big ones) where the diesel fuel has dribbled throuh the injectors over night, then upond trying to start it in the morning it hydraulics. Most on the the time it simply locks up and won't turn over, but in one case, the 'filled' cylinder was on the downward stroke, so it actually fired up on another cylinder and threw a rod, wrecked the crankcase and dmaged the crank. Was actually a blessing.

When I was working in the Philipines, we had a couple of Rolls Royce DV8 Diesels, and every morning the boys would drain about half the sump contents and pour it (back) in the fuel tank. They had next to no rings.
Author:  Convertible Mini [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Fuel in Sump
My Ride on Mower did that a while ago and I wondered why I could not turn the engine over ! Had to drain the sump fill with new oil, clean carby and I also fitted a Fuel tap on it now so I does not happen again.
Author:  Lockie91 [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Anyone had this happen?
Bubbacluby wrote:
In my recently built GT motor (everything was rebuilt) it took me 1000miles around sydney etc and engine didnt miss a beat.

I get it home and then a few days later i go to check my oil and i have about 10mm on the end of the dipstick and It's leaking all over dads pavers and I dont know where from.

Im thinking surely I couldnt have leaked out 4lts of oil. Thought wow something major must have went wrong.

Take it out to my mate warrick agustin and tell him I think a seal has let go or i have cracked my diff or somthing cause i got no oil.

When he gets time he looks at it and my sump is full of petrol and the petrol has played havoc with the driveshaft seals causing the leak.

What happened was because our driveway is on lean and when parked if my tanks are full they are higher than the carbs.
So something had gotten stuck under the needle and seat and wasnt sealing allowing the petrol to flow through the carb into the head, down the open valve and down the bore into my sump.

It wasnt that i had no oil it was just that the petrol was sitting on top of if and couldnt see it very well on the dipstick.(you woulda thought i'd smelt it)

So what i thought was a partial engine rebuild (in which i was going to change the cam) ended up being just an oil and filter change, draining of my cooler, and replacement of the drive shaft seals. So worked out not costing much at all

Im glad i didnt drive it like it was, because was told i could have seized/spun/wrecked a bearing

I now have a petrol filter awaiting fitment

just wondering if anyone else has ever had there sump fill with petrol?

Brenton


gosh bit of bad luck there mate..

If I were you I would be pulling at least the needle and seat and float out on the twin carbs and clean everything up if not the whole carbys and putting a new seat in.. your driveway isan't on that much of a slope really.. so theres a good chance it will happen again when you park back there next time for a long period of time..

it would be better to have a new needle and seat fitted knowing this will minimise the fact of it happening again.. and cleaning it to ensure the grit is well gone.. you dont want this happening again, incase you get in one day and just drive off, and get to the end of the road and your bearings seize up because of the fuel in the system..
Author:  Irish Yobbo [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, this has happened to me, but not with a mini.

Our old family car used to be an AP5 valiant with a 225 slant 6 engine. It was always a good runner, but it drank a bit of fuel. We used it less and less, and usually leant it to friends who needed a car.

We leant it to a friend, and when he returned it, filled up the tank (on ya mate!). However, it was a long time before we ran it again, and when we did, we started it up, and the engine started blasting oil everywhere. We assumed an oil seal had blown, and since we didn't really use it much and couldn't afford to fix it, we handed in the plates and parked in in the car port.

A few years later, we tried to get it fixed. We were trying to fill up the sump with oil to find the leak, when we noticed that it was already over-full, with a very 'thin' oil. It was a mixture of petrol and oil. The car wan't parked on a slope like yours, it looks like it may have just been the heat expanding the fuel and pushing through the pump, through the carby and into the engine.

We drained the sump, flushed it and refilled it, and it now runs better than it did when we bought it (my mother bought it when she was 18). Seems to have given the engine a good clean. It's now the quietest running car we own.
Author:  simon k [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 
It's happened to me, with my mini. It happened to JAM once with his GT as well

I'd put the car backwards up my sloping driveway, and up on stands so the bum was waaay up in the air. Got so much petrol in the motor that it came out the dipstick hole

No ill-effects, but once I realised I dumped that oil quick smart. I over fuelled a motor once, and you should have seen the state of the bearings

The electric fuel pump won't stop fuel flowing through it, and if gravity empties the fuel bowls into the manifold, the needle & seats won't stop the bowls refilling

solution, don't park the car with the bum in the air
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
hey lochie yeah needle and seat were changed.

Warrick was saying he used to see it on minis when the diaphram in the mech fuel pump would go - so it would pump fuel straight into the sump.

Yeah I often reverse the car in the driveway now and hopefully the filter will catch anything before it jams the needle and seat open again.

Just found it interesting

brenton
Author:  simon k [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bubbacluby wrote:
hopefully the filter will catch anything before it jams the needle and seat open again.


that's not the cause, the needle and seat (both of them for you) - re-read what I said above.

If the tanks are full, and the fuel is above the level of the carbs, the system will just syphon it through
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
simon k wrote:
The electric fuel pump won't stop fuel flowing through it, and if gravity empties the fuel bowls into the manifold, the needle & seats won't stop the bowls refilling


simon k wrote:
Bubbacluby wrote:
hopefully the filter will catch anything before it jams the needle and seat open again.


that's not the cause, the needle and seat (both of them for you) - re-read what I said above.

If the tanks are full, and the fuel is above the level of the carbs, the system will just syphon it through


Im not sure if im following you.

It doesnt matter if the fuel bowls are full or not, the electric pump will pump until it has reached pressure and then stop (ie the fuel bowl filled and needle and seat stopped fuel flow).

So what your saying is the pressure of the fuel in the tank being higher than the presure in the fuel bown that pushes the needle and seat upwards so it will be unable to seal and keep flowing in? Thats doesnt sound quite right to me :?

Our driveway isnt massively steep, its a little steep and not steep enough for the above to happen anyway

I had some gunk (I assume from my tanks) get stuck on the seat in the fuel bowl lid. So when the fuel bowl became full and caused the float to rise pushing the needle up to form a seal, it was unable to because of the rubbish stuck, hence because there was no seal the power of gravity caused the fuel to keep running - down my carby, into head, down bore and into sump

Brenton
Author:  MG Rocket [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
The car would have to be almost standing on its grill for the float to fail to do it's job.
Author:  simon k [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
here's the way I see it happening - I'm positive this is what happened in my case...

the fuel bowls were at a steep enough angle that the fuel was able to trickle out of the jet and down the manifold, thus taking the pressure off the needle and seat. The level of fuel in the tanks was above the level in the float bowls, so the fuel ran down to the float bowls and just kept trickling down the manifold.

If there was enough fuel in the tanks, it wouldn't take much of an angle on the car to make what I'm suggesting happen.

You're both right about the gravity pressure from the tank not being able to push the needle and seat open, but you might be forgetting that the float bowls can be emptied by gravity too
Author:  Monaco [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's a quick way to run the motor in!

Strange thing to happen.
Author:  kerrie wilks [ Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  fuel in sump
Had this happen with a MK1 S I had in late 70,s. I overfilled both tanks & drove it
about 15 kms to home, parked it up & didn,t try starting it for about a week.
It wouldn,t fire so when I checked everything I found the engine was full of fuel.
My mechanic who used to own the car (and still looks after my Clubby van) explained
that it had gravity drained back through the carbies & down the cylinder walls.
Lesson I learnt, don,t fill i to the top
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