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Wiring help with MK1 loom on A+ car
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Author:  miniature [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Wiring help with MK1 loom on A+ car
Hi,

It's been a long time since I last posted here, but that's because I've finally decided to combat inertia and get off the couch to complete my Mini K restoration project. I've been going on two months now and hopefully I'll only stop this time at completion:)

I'm in the process of wiring my car and I think I've gotten myself into quite a tangled situation.

I have a '71 Mini K, which at some point in its life, had a metro A+ 998 transplanted. During my restoration of the car, I decided to get a wiring loom from Minispares that was meant for a MK1 Cooper with alternator (part 5L672). I bought that loom because I thought it would work better than a newer loom because of things like, for example, the fact that Mini K's had the old-style rear tail lamps. I now think that might have been a mistake. There appear to be many things I need to reconcile by using this loom and the most frustrating thing is that I can't seem to find any kind of wiring diagram for this loom to help me make sense of it all. I don't think that any of the existing diagrams in the Haynes manual seem to match up with this loom after examining them.

At any rate, I do have two specific questions that I'd appreciate any help or advice on.

First, I figured out that this loom is probably designed for an older Mini with the old-style starter solenoid that is separate from the starter. Since I have an A+ engine, I have the later style solenoid integrated with the starter. Is there any way I can use this ignition wiring with my A+ starter solenoid? Would anyone happen to know what modifications I would need to make if they are needed? On the set of wires going to the starter solenoid, I have the following:

1. A brown wire with a small female spade connector
2. Two brown wires merged into a big female spade connector
3. A white with red stripe wire with a small spade connector (I think this is for cranking the starter based on Lucas wire color codes)

The starter solenoid has a big male spade connector and one small male spade connector. Currently I've connected wire #1 to the small spade connector on the solenoid and wire #2 to the big spade connector on the solenoid. I don't think this is right because I can't seem to get power to circuits that should be 'always on' such as the blinkers. I was surmising that it might be because the ignition wiring must be hooked up first for the 'always on' circuits to be live. Not sure if I'm right about this, but I've spun my head around all the wiring for two days now and I've probably short-circuited my brain in the process.

The second issue I'm dealing with is the headlight wiring. There are many different headlight-related wires and I need to figure out whether they should be wired to each other or whether they were meant to be used in conjunction with a relay. There are three sets of headlight-related wires on this loom:

At the front grille area:
1. Blue-red bullet connector
2. Blue-white bullet connector
3. Red bullet connector

Short set of wires at center binnacle on dash:
1. Blue bullet connector
2. blue-red bullet connector
3. blue-white bullet connector

Another longer set of headlight-related wiring that appear to be for a dash switch:
1. Blue with a spade connector
2. Red with a spade connector
3. Two reds merged into one spade connector
4. Brown-blue with a spade connector

Does the above wiring seem like wiring for a relay? I can't make sense of what should be plugged in where based on what is there...

I'd appreciate any help or advice I can get:) I've searched the forums and gone through individually every post with the words 'starter', 'solenoid', 'wiring', 'headlight', and 'relay' and I couldn't find anything specific to my situation. I did find some excellent posts on how to wire a headlight relay with diagrams (which I've printed out), but I first have to make sense of how the headlight wires on my loom work before starting to wire them.

Thank you for any help you can provide and my humble apologies if your head hurt from reading this post^^;
Author:  Convertible Mini [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:33 am ]
Post subject:  Mini Wiring
Here read this and give yourself a bit more head ache.
You got yourself in a bit of a spaghetti bowl here mate.
Starting at the beginning of the power source. Because you have the harness for the early solenoid system you will have to use the original solenoid as well to avoid having to make joins. Mount it in the original position and connect the wires to it in their proper position. Then to get over the problem all you will need to do is get a starter cable made up to go from the remote Solenoid to the starter solenoid. Connect this cable to the battery terminal post side of the slave solenoid with the rest of the cables. meaning wou will end up with battery power styraight to the starter too. From the other terminal post on the slave make up another piece of wire about 5mm cable (30 Amp cable) and run this one to the larger spade terminal on the starter solenoid which should be the solenoid trigger. Like this the slave solenoid is being used a a "starter relay" and joiner block at the same time.

Where at the Biancle you have Blue, Blue/Red and Blue /White (3 Wires) these join to another piece of the Harnes that you should have and they go to the Floor Dipper switch.
Mink K had the dipper switch on the floor even though it had the later Indicator stalk with the Dipper switch in it. (This function was not used)

Minis were never fitted with relays.
Everything else should be very straight forward. If you look at any wiring Diagram for Mini you will be able to identify each wire and what it does as the color coding is the same on all early Minis.
I hope this helps.

Red and Blue /Red and Blue/White at the Grill are
Red = Parker lights
Blue/Red = Low beam
Blue White = High beam

Longer lead with Blue, Reds, and Brown/Blue

1. Blue with a spade connector = power to dipper switch'
2. Red with a spade connector = front Parkers.
3. Two reds merged into one spade connector = Tail lights and Dash lights
4. Brown-blue with a spade connector = power to light switch from fuse box.
There are two spades with Reds on the switch lead. Early Minis had the front parkers on a separate terminal on the switch as when the headlights are turned on the front parkers used to go out as it was unnecessary to have them on especially on Generator (Dynamo) Cars. Just to save power. You can still connect them to the same terminal as the rear Lights so they are on ewven with headlights on, depending on the requirements of your country. If you are fitting an Alternator it does not matter.
I hope all this helps.

PS.
TRY NOT TO LET THE SMOKE OUT OF THE WIRES OTHERWISE NOTHING WILL WORK. LUCAS SMOKE IS VERY EASY TO LET OUT BUT VERY EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE.
Author:  phillb [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Mini Wiring
Convertible Mini wrote:
Early Minis had the front parkers on a separate terminal on the switch as when the headlights are turned on the front parkers used to go out as it was unnecessary to have them on especially on Generator (Dynamo) Cars. Just to save power. You can still connect them to the same terminal as the rear Lights so they are on ewven with headlights on, depending on the requirements of your country.


I never realised that. Is this refering to cars with the parkers in the headlights?

Sorry slight hijack here.

I was wondering if an Aussie wired car, (say 68) could be easily re-wired so that when the headlights are on the combo front parkers go out.

I always worry that at night oncoming drivers may not notice the bright/dim flash of the blinker.
Author:  miniature [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Thank you so much for your reply. This is very helpful. It makes sense now as to how the headlights are supposed to work now, given your detailed descriptoin.

I guess the follow up question I would have regarding the starter situation is: How difficult it would be to make the joins to connect my ignition circuit on my loom directly to the later-version starter solenoid?
Author:  GT mowog [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wiring help with MK1 loom on A+ car
miniature wrote:

I have a '71 Mini K, which at some point in its life, had a metro A+ 998 transplanted. During my restoration of the car, I decided to get a wiring loom from Minispares that was meant for a MK1 Cooper with alternator (part 5L672).


I haven't compared wire for wire, but in theory, the loom you bought should work (there are some differences, read on), however, what I have noticed is that the UK looms seem to use a smaller gauge wire than the Ozzies did. There is a company here in Oz - Vintage Wiring Harness - who can supply an 'as original' loom but they only supply to order, which can be good, because if you want some modifications (eg LH drive), they can do it when they make it.

http://www.vinwire.com.au/

miniature wrote:
I don't think that any of the existing diagrams in the Haynes manual seem to match up with this loom after examining them.


The diagram for the MKI Cooper S / Deluxe 850 should be the same.

miniature wrote:

First, I figured out that this loom is probably designed for an older Mini with the old-style starter solenoid that is separate from the starter. Since I have an A+ engine, I have the later style solenoid integrated with the starter. Is there any way I can use this ignition wiring with my A+ starter solenoid? Would anyone happen to know what modifications I would need to make if they are needed? On the set of wires going to the starter solenoid, I have the following:

1. A brown wire with a small female spade connector
2. Two brown wires merged into a big female spade connector
3. A white with red stripe wire with a small spade connector (I think this is for cranking the starter based on Lucas wire color codes)

The starter solenoid has a big male spade connector and one small male spade connector. Currently I've connected wire #1 to the small spade connector on the solenoid and wire #2 to the big spade connector on the solenoid. I don't think this is right because I can't seem to get power to circuits that should be 'always on' such as the blinkers. I was surmising that it might be because the ignition wiring must be hooked up first for the 'always on' circuits to be live.


All the BROWN wires need to connect to the battery +ve on the Solenoid. They come up from the front vailence and so should reach no problem. The only 'wire' you will have to alter (extend) is the main battery cable itself. The White wire/ Red trace is the 'Start' wire. It engauges the solenoid to operate the starter motor. The should be a seperate stand alone terminal on the solenoid. It goes on to that.

The blinkers are fused and come 'alive' via the ignition switch. They are not alive all the time.

miniature wrote:

The second issue I'm dealing with is the headlight wiring. There are many different headlight-related wires and I need to figure out whether they should be wired to each other or whether they were meant to be used in conjunction with a relay. There are three sets of headlight-related wires on this loom:


At the front grille area:
1. Blue-red bullet connector Low or Dipped Beam
2. Blue-white bullet connector High or Main Beam
3. Red bullet connector Parking Lights

miniature wrote:

Short set of wires at center binnacle on dash:
1. Blue bullet connector from HEADLIGHT switch
2. blue-red bullet connector to LOW Beams
3. blue-white bullet connector to HIGH Beams


These went to the Head Light Dipper Switch. On the Mini K, this was actually on the steering column as part of the blinker switch, however (and this is one of the differences with the loom) on the MKI Cooper S, it was floor mounted on the centre of the toe board, to be operated by your foot. Shouldn't be a big problem, you may have to unwrap some of the loom tape to pull them back (or they may reach) to the steering column with the blinker switch wires.

miniature wrote:

Another longer set of headlight-related wiring that appear to be for a dash switch:
1. Blue with a spade connector
2. Red with a spade connector
3. Two reds merged into one spade connector
4. Brown-blue with a spade connector

Does the above wiring seem like wiring for a relay? I can't make sense of what should be plugged in where based on what is there...


These go to the Headlight / Parker Switch (it is a single switch with 3 positions). There were no factory fitted relays to this model.

Just some other 'basics' that may help with wire colour coding;-

BROWN alive all the time, NOT fused (ie stright off the battery).
PURPLE alive all the time, but fused. (in this model, it was only the Interior Light and Horn that was connected on this circuit).
WHITE alive via the ignition switch, NOT fused.
GREEN alive via the ignition switch, fused.
BLUE is the Headlight circuit
RED is the Parker / Taillamp / Instrument lamp circuit.

Trust this is of some help.

<EDIT>

I think Convertable Mini beat me to it while I was writing & having breakfast.

Convertible Mini wrote:

PS.
TRY NOT TO LET THE SMOKE OUT OF THE WIRES OTHERWISE NOTHING WILL WORK. LUCAS SMOKE IS VERY EASY TO LET OUT BUT VERY EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE.


:lol: :wink:
Author:  miniature [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks to both you, GT mowog, and Convertible Mini. This is exactly the information I needed. I have to tell you, I've had this aversion to wiring like some people do to spiders. But long ago I resolved to do the wiring myself- like I've tried to do with everything else in my restoration.

All your feedback is very helpful from a technical standpoint, but it's also very encouraging too. I can't tell you how much simple advice and assistance can lift the spirits:-) Thank you.
Author:  clovus [ Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Very timely post,

I have pulled the wiring from my car and in places the PVC split in two revealing dirty brown wiring. Looks like i will be getting a new loom for my 1966 deluxe with alternator Does anyone know if the uk mk1 loom is the same as the Aussie?
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