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Gearbox case numbers
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=75699		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Gearbox case numbers
I was at my mates place today and he had a few mk1 (3-synchro) mini gearbox's pulled out, he wasnt sure what they were from, and neither was i. So can someone tell me what mini the following cases are from:

1) 22A1522
2) 22G68
3) 22G58
4) 22G382

These are all cast into the block itself NOT stamped

Thanks Brenton
Author:  spraycanmansam [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gearbox case numbers
Bubbacluby wrote:
I was at my mates place today and he had a few mk1 (3-synchro) mini gearbox's pulled out, he wasnt sure what they were from, and neither was i. So can someone tell me what mini the following cases are from:

1) 22A1522
2) 22G68
3) 22G58
4) 22G382

These are all cast into the block itself NOT stamped

Thanks Brenton


From the information I have they're listed as:

1) MkII Cooper S
2) 850
3) Not listed
4) Possibly from an Elf/Hornet
Author:  simon k [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gearbox case numbers
1) 22A1522 - google says MK1 Cooper S, but I've not seen that number before, only the 12G333 and 22A1288 for MK 1 S'
2) 22G68 - I've seen Morris 1100 'boxes with this casting
3) 22G58 - ??
4) 22G382 - Deluxe & later 850's
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
From Mini Car Clinic book (OK it's Mini Kingdom's data)-

22A1522- last B type 3 synchro box used on Mini and Cooper S
22G68- 850/998 Mini, 997/998 Cooper, A & B form gears, remote and magic wand
22G58- I reckon it's a 68. (no other box numbers near it)
22G382- 850 & 998 Mini, B type gears, magic wand.
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
From Mini Car Clinic book (OK it's Mini Kingdom's data)-

22A1522- last B type 3 synchro box used on Mini and Cooper S
22G68- 850/998 Mini, 997/998 Cooper, A & B form gears, remote and magic wand
22G58- I reckon it's a 68. (no other box numbers near it)
22G382- 850 & 998 Mini, B type gears, magic wand.


What do you mean by "B type" and are you saying that some box casings used on mk 1 cooper s were stamped the same as standard delux ( except i take the internals were ground out further to allow the swing of the crank?)

It did really look like a 5, but it was dirty and maybe some of it was ground off.
Author:  simon k [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Bubbacluby wrote:
What do you mean by "B type" and are you saying that some box casings used on mk 1 cooper s were stamped the same as standard delux ( except i take the internals were ground out further to allow the swing of the crank?)


there are two types of gears, early 850's had 'A' type gears, after that they changed to 'B' type gears. Nothing to do with 'A' series and 'B' series engines

Cooper S gearbox cases were never shared with Deluxes

Were there any gears in that 1588 case?
Author:  AEG163job [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Section "f" of the factory manual explains all about B type gears. I wouldn't imagine there would be many boxes around these days with the earlier gears. As with the later 4 syncro remote box, the laygear ID number determines which ratios hide inside, although the external stamping (note the casing number) tells also (eg 12FAxxxx on the 3 syncro S box). Sir Morris 1100 probably knows all about these serial numbers.
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
simon k wrote:
Bubbacluby wrote:
What do you mean by "B type" and are you saying that some box casings used on mk 1 cooper s were stamped the same as standard delux ( except i take the internals were ground out further to allow the swing of the crank?)


there are two types of gears, early 850's had 'A' type gears, after that they changed to 'B' type gears. Nothing to do with 'A' series and 'B' series engines

Cooper S gearbox cases were never shared with Deluxes

Were there any gears in that 1588 case?


You mean the 1522

I cant remember if any gears in the case, but if it does i suppose the laygear coding will tell me more?

The Doc in his description said
docmini wrote:
last B type 3 snchro box used on mini and cooper S


So If mk1 S and delux used different boxes, then what is "mini" ?

thanks for everyones help so far
Author:  Mike_Byron [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:35 am ]
Post subject: 
See if I have this right - apart from the fact that there are three factory type gearboxes (magic wand, remote and rod change) there were variations in the internals.

The magic wand variations (A and B) had to do with synchromesh mechanisms. The A type was prone to failure and this was improved with the B type.

The remote type came in two types - three synchromesh and synchromesh on all four gears. Within the two types the final drive varied depending on the non sports model type. eg panel van and poverty pack as against the deluxe etc. The cooper sports type had different gearing predominantly in the cluster gear ratios and was only factory supplied with Cooper typ models.

The rod change gear box was a four gear synchromesh type and ultimately came with variable final drive ratios and perhaps also variable gear box ratios. However i dont believe it was ever delivered with sports type ratios.

How this marries up with casing numbers, I simply dont know

Mike
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:43 am ]
Post subject: 
Mike,
It is true that the early cone synchro boxes were all A form gears.
However early baulk ring boxes (1963?) were A form too.
The difference in the gears is the pressure angle- easiest way to tell is look at the 1st gear siding outer ring. If the top of the gear is rounded over it is A form, if it has a `flat' (not quite) bit, it is B form.
[edit] Vizard wrote a fair bit on this topic in his HTMYM book.

Bubba,
`Mini' in this context is any 3 synchro Mini (in 1967-1969) that is not an S. it includes the Deluxe and Morris Mini Minor Probably Moke too....
Author:  simon k [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bubbacluby wrote:
You mean the 1522

I cant remember if any gears in the case, but if it does i suppose the laygear coding will tell me more?


yep, sorry - that's what I meant

And yes, if there's a laygear in it, that'll tell us what it is. My guess is that it's an early 1100S case
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
22A1522- last B type 3 synchro box used on Mini and Cooper S


drmini in aust wrote:
Bubba,
`Mini' in this context is any 3 synchro Mini (in 1967-1969) that is not an S. it includes the Deluxe and Morris Mini Minor Probably Moke too....


simon k wrote:


Cooper S gearbox cases were never shared with Deluxes



Now im really lost :? :?

Saying casing is mini and cooper S, then Simon saying mini and cooper s boxes were not the same. Contradicting each other.... Im lost...........

So are you saying that b type cases were used last in the 3 synchro boxes and this included standard mini's and cooper s. However the casing of this mini was from a mini, NOT a cooper s?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
According to John's book, 22A1522 was the last gearbox case used before the 4 synchro box came in. It was used on the last of the Mk1S according to this book. And also on the Deluxe it seems.
The gearset in the S box is different of course, it has closer ratios. And a 3.44 diff.
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh ok.... Im with it now.

Thanks Doc

Thanks everyone for helping me out.
Author:  simon k [ Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bubbacluby wrote:
drmini in aust wrote:
22A1522- last B type 3 synchro box used on Mini and Cooper S


drmini in aust wrote:
Bubba,
`Mini' in this context is any 3 synchro Mini (in 1967-1969) that is not an S. it includes the Deluxe and Morris Mini Minor Probably Moke too....


simon k wrote:


Cooper S gearbox cases were never shared with Deluxes



Now im really lost :? :?

Saying casing is mini and cooper S, then Simon saying mini and cooper s boxes were not the same. Contradicting each other.... Im lost...........

So are you saying that b type cases were used last in the 3 synchro boxes and this included standard mini's and cooper s. However the casing of this mini was from a mini, NOT a cooper s?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


:lol: :lol: I reckon Kev and I are agreeing with each other. The contradiction is coming from Kev's quote from the Mini Kingdom book. I have no proof (and no axe to grind) but there is a possibility that the Mini Kingdom book is wrong, that the 22A1588 box wasn't used Australian mini's of any kind

What I think we're saying is that Mini gearboxes aren't S gearboxes. Mini gearboxes were used under small bore engines, and S gearboxes weren't used under anything other than a 1275 - I specify 1275 because 1100S' shared the same casing with the last of our MK1 S', which was a 22A1288 case. I have a couple of 22A1288 cases that came from 1100S' I wrecked.

I doubt that the 22A1522 box was ever used in an Australian delivered Deluxe. If you google it, you'll find references to it as a SCCR MK1 'S box, so maybe that casing came in as a gearbox for private import race car.

There are plenty of resources around - try this for example - http://mk1-performance-conversions.co.u ... rboxes.pdf

It confirms some of what I've said, except for the 22A1288 being 1275 only, but that's neither here nor there.
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