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Best disc brakes for 10" wheels
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76114		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Paddy [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Best disc brakes for 10" wheels
Hi guys, first post on here, I know there have been alot of posts on brakes on here but most of the ones I've seen are quite old now. What I would like to know is what are the best brakes you can buy to fit under 10" wheels on a '77 leyland mini ( I know some don't fit under certain rims, I'm not concerened with this as I havnt chosen a set of rims yet just that they are going to be 10"). What I'm after is the best braking performance, I know the common options are KAD, tarox and minispares, I have been leaning more towards the KAD set up with 7.9", are there any other (new) companies doing set ups? Has anyone had the chance to compare any of these side by side? And is it worth fitting a brake booster as well?

Thanks for any help in advance
Paddy
Author:  Bubbacluby [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
A 77 mini has the dual braking system, so you can only boost the fronts or the rears unless you use two boosters or bi-pass/remove the dual system.

I have heard of this being done (boosting the fronts), but i have also heard it can mess up things with the brake biasing valve (thing under the rear subframe)

my GT has a booster and twice i have disconnected it (once cause i changed inlet manifiolds and didnt have an outake, now it has broke and i havnt disconnected to get it fixed) and the difference is very noticable.

Just makes it easier on the leg, you dont need as much muscle. So feels as though braking is better.

You need to consider brake pads as well, if you are interested in braking performance

Does anyone know if the late rover boosters will overcome the dual system and boosting the fronts and the backs?
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've put boosters on a few dual systems, but just boosted the fronts. Worked good.

It's a waste of time boosting the rears, they do SFA with discs on the front, otherwise they will lock up. That's why we fit 5/8 rear cylinders..
I had Barney sideways in the wet at 110klix on the F3 one day because the PO had left the 3/4" rear cylinders on it. And this was with NO booster!
Author:  meeni [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Havnt actually tried them but I'd say kad make the best setup to go under 10's, they seem to be on all the best race minis in the uk (miglias etc) so if you can afford them go for them, possibly over kill on the road though, and not sure if they have dust seals, some race specific calipers dont.. I wouldn't bother with a booster, it's the fugliest modification to your engine bay without actually increasing performance in any way, and unless your legs don't work you'll have no problem pushing the the Un boosted brakes
Author:  marconi [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had see that there were some "Honda" set ups that would fit to a drum brake spindel. THese will require an engineering cert in most states (I undestand) but probably worth it if you're doing other mods that will need to be engineered any way. (only pay for one cert. once)

Has anyone looked at any of the Brembo 4pot bike calipers combined with modified pedal/lever points & or Master cylinder changes?????

The U/K master Cylinder arangement on my 92 rover cooper looked like it would fit nicly on an earlier Ausie Clubbie?????

Just asin zall :-)
(Cause I haven't searched the archives yet :lol: )

Cheers Paul.
Author:  sgc [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
marconi wrote:
I had see that there were some "Honda" set ups that would fit to a drum brake spindel


Have a look at Hanra's build thread of his Mini - he has Honda calipers on the front attached to custom brackets. You're right, this will need engineering.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
sgc wrote:
marconi wrote:
I had see that there were some "Honda" set ups that would fit to a drum brake spindel


Have a look at Hanra's build thread of his Mini - he has Honda calipers on the front attached to custom brackets. You're right, this will need engineering.

They will `need engineering' but I'm only aware of 1 case where the owner bothered. That was `animal', up in Qld.

I have built a few Honda Civic sets over the years. To get them inside any 10" wheels takes some serious grinding of the pad mounting bracket and the caliper itself. [edit] Also the pads need one side ground away, every time you fit a new set. I think you might have trouble getting engineering approval with 10s.
They do fit inside 12s and 13s, no grinding needed there.
Another thing they need is spacers, these are `technically' illegal in Australia but I'm aware they are sold. Supposedly `for offroad use', yeah right.

My 2c- these days with the good exchange rate, why bother. Fit Cooper S 7.5s or better.
Author:  Mike_Byron [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I totally agree with the Doc. Sooner or later a car with hybrid bits gets sold on - then perhaps two owners on it needs work. Nobody knows what work was done and where to get it repaired or how to source parts for the hybrid bits.

Stick with original parts or at least parts from the factory.

You can get cooper disc rotors almost overnight and bolt them on - crack a Honda disc and its weeks of stuffing around to get another machined down .

Mike
Author:  Paddy [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
sgc wrote:
marconi wrote:
I had see that there were some "Honda" set ups that would fit to a drum brake spindel


Have a look at Hanra's build thread of his Mini - he has Honda calipers on the front attached to custom brackets. You're right, this will need engineering.

They will `need engineering' but I'm only aware of 1 case where the owner bothered. That was `animal', up in Qld.

I have built a few Honda Civic sets over the years. To get them inside any 10" wheels takes some serious grinding of the pad mounting bracket and the caliper itself. I think you might have trouble getting engineering approval with 10s. They do fit inside 12s and 13s, no grinding needed there.
Another thing they need is spacers, these are `technically' illegal in Australia but I'm aware they are sold. Supposedly `for offroad use', yeah right.

My 2c- these days with the good exchange rate, why bother. Fit Cooper S 7.5s or better.


will the honda brakes be any better than the KAD or tarox brakes though?
Author:  sgc [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Paddy wrote:
will the honda brakes be any better than the KAD or tarox brakes though?


Short answer, no. They're usually adapted because they're cheap and available, not because they're better.

You'll struggle to go past the KAD or MiniSpares 4-potters, but on a roadie even these are probably overkill over a good set of Cooper S calipers. About the only tangible benefit is that they'll be lighter.

[edit] I have the MiniSpares alloy 4-pots on my car under regular ol' 10x5 Contessas, clamping slotted MiniSpares rotors and I love 'em. They fit, just...
Author:  smac [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't see how. Brakes can be good in 5 ways that I can think of: stopping power, reliability, cost, weight, and cooling/fade resistance. Number 6, bragging rights, isn't on my list, but may be on other's.

Stopping power? Properly adjusted drums will lock on a mini, you can't get more stopping power. mini7's raced with front drums for years.

Reliability? That's why you go discs over drums. No need to adjust, less prone to the effects of water. Any disc achieves this.

Cost? Have you SEEN the exorbitant prices of kad gear? Bang for buck, go 7.5"

Weight? Pfft. Pub bragging rights only.

Cooling/fade? Super minis here race 140-150hp on solid disc 7.5's. If you drive like THAT much of a maniac, the right pads are available, and will get the same benefit as vented discs.


So is kad or some Frankenstein honda set-up worth it? Not for me. Your situation may be different.
Author:  Kennomini [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Personally if I was to build an "ultimate" braking set up I'd go a set of 6 pot alloy calipers (I think tarox make a set that fit inside some 10" rims) on the biggest rotors that will fit (7.9" I think) and get vented, grooved and cross drilled if possible. I'd also go with KAD rear disc brakes, they are no more powerful than drums but their a lot lighter which will improve performance and handling, same with the front being lighter. I would not bother with a booster it's just something else that can break.
I'm not sure about disc pads, I wouldn't use a "race" style pad because they take time to warm up and you won't be able to get and keep them warm enough for them to work at their peak efficiency. Just a "fast road" pad would be nice, also if you don't want the KAD rear disc conversion just go with alloy superfin drums.
Author:  Paddy [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
smac wrote:
Stopping power? Properly adjusted drums will lock on a mini, you can't get more stopping power. mini7's raced with front drums for years.


not having a go at you here, but if you take a standard holden commodore with the undersized brakes it has and slam your foot on the brake pedal you can lock the wheels and if you take a same year hsv clubsport with its much larger brakes and stomp on them it will lock the brakes as well, but i can tell you from experience that the larger brakes pull up a lot quicker. its not the ability to lock the wheels that gives you best braking its the fine line just before locking them where there is maximum friction slowing the car down, once you lock your brakes they stop doing anything and the only thing slowing you down is the friction between non rotating tyres and the road.

i understand alot of cars have used them to race with over the years but i think most will agree that discs are a lot better

what im hoping someone will know is the difference in surface area, braking force, evenness of pressure from pistons of the tarox, kad, minispares brake kits. to see which one is better
Author:  1071 S [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
"Stopping power? Properly adjusted drums will lock on a mini.."

I've seen this silliness repeated a number of times.

It is true - once, maybe twice but then..... Jaguar didn't adopt discs at Lemans because they had better initial stopping power then Ferrari drums but you have to ask why any car with performance pretensions today (well pretty much any car) wears discs.

You may argue weight, cost or self adjustment - but they just work better.

There's no such thing as an "ultimate " braking set-up. Because the best is that which suits your purpose. Metallic pads work great when hot but are useless for normal road work.

Bragging rights is the most useless criteria.... but there are a lot of wan%^s in this world.

Cheers, Ian
Author:  meeni [ Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah locking and stopping power are different things..

For the record I'm buying minisport 7.9 inch vented discs and alloy 4 potters, for the price, you can't go wrong!
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