Hi all, first post for a long time.

I have acquired a 1964 Cooper S racing car. It was last raced in around 1986 as in Appendix J and has been stored ever since.

I contacted CAMS about having its log book transferred into my name but they tell me that as it has been sitting so long it will need to go through the entire approval process for Group Nb. I have no issues with this at all, there are quite a few jobs that need to be done. But I have a query about the roll cage.

From what I understand the regulations now require steel roll bars/cages. My car is fitted with an alloy one which I think might have been made by Rod Stevens (well know touring car driver in the 70s). At least that's what's left of a sticker on one or the the bars shows.

From looking at pics of other Nb cars here on ausmini I see that some cars still have alloy bars and cages - are they still permissible?

My plan is to make as few changes to the car as possible, but still bring it up to modern standards.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Brian

Hi Brian,

Out of curiosity, did the car you buy come from QLD? Sounds very familiar to a car I knew

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Bluey-1973 Clubby - 1330, high lift, big cam, 7 port madness in progress..

Gumby-1978 Minivan, British Racing Green - 1310, high lift, mild cam, enlarged porting and chamber shape with big valve head, supercharged build in ever slow progress!

As far as I know and I wouldn't quote me on this but if your car is being re log booked it would need to comply with the current standards, yes other cars run alloy cages but I would say that's because they have maintained the use of the car hence not requiring new inspections.. I'd say thats the case anyway. I'd put a steel one in anyway for piece of minds sake. Lots of good fia approved cages available for minis

Have a look at the CAMS online site. Under general regs in Schedule J there is this:

"Safety Cage Structures built to Previous and foreign regulations
Vehicles built to previous CAMS Regulations:Where a safety cage structure is fitted to a vehicle which is subject of a CAMS log book, or where the safety cage structure has been certified by CAMS, such safety cage structure may continue to be used in competition provided it remains in conformity with the regulations that were in force at the date of issue of either the initial log book for the vehicle, or the certification document.
Regardless of when the car was first subject of a log book, the following requirements apply: a Type 3 Full Safety Cage structure is the minimum requirement in a closed vehicle in a national or state level
race, except in competition exclusively for the 5th Category (and unless otherwise specified in the relevant Historic Technical Regulations); a Type 3 Full Safety Cage structure is the minimum requirement in a closed vehicle in a national level rally and/ or a Tarmac Rally; a Type 3 Full Safety Cage structure with a roof reinforcement configuration complying with Drawing J-14, J-15 or J-16 is the minimum requirement in an open vehicle in a timed rally/trial or off road event; and protective padding is required in accordance with Article 11."

I am looking at an ex-Mini 1000 race car, raced 1994 - 1997 with a engineer certified 6 point chrom moly cage and CAMS logbook. I was told this week by CAMS that I can transfer the log book onto my name (nothing about an inspection) and still use the same cage (as outlined above) although it doesn't comply to the 2012 specs for a 'national level' event

I was told that even if the current cage is alloy it can still be used if the logbook says as much. Of course they want all cars to be current to the 2012 specs but there are a few still running the older cages.

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Dave K.
1979 Moke Californian + 1981 'Coke' Moke

Hi does the Car still have its original log book ..

if it does then you can keep your alloy cage .. there are a few cars already here in adealide that still have thier alloy cages .. are you planning on runnng group N ?

if so it would be a good idea to get in touch with the local touring car club .
http://www.htcasa.com.au/

do not rush into this your car is worth a whole lot more with its original cage ...

if you need any help getting out on the track send me a message ..

The racing here in adealide is really good with six (6) MINIS already on track .. makes for some great fun


Beanie

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I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

From recollection it was about 2000 or early 2000s when the steel was required thereafter. All alloy ROPS were acceptable if log booked before that date - whatever it was.

Like the advice before me work to retain the alloy cage. You may have to point out to the CAMS bloke that re-logbooking may force several thousands of dollars, firstly for the new chrome moly and secondly reducing the value of your Nb car.

If you are working with an Eligibility Officer that is adamant for the upgrade - I'd try the head office bloke there at CAMS Customer Service Team (Keith Simpson maybe) who is quite helpful. if you then get it in writing from Head Office the bloke who expresses his opinion can be quashed.

Besto luck!

Hi Lockie

No, as far I know (from the logbook) its always been an SA car.

Thanks Beanie, might take you up on that when we get back to Adelaide (away at present). Yes, it has its original log book.

My aim is to use the car for things such as hillclimbs, sprints and regularity events etc - not to be ultra competitive, (too long in the tooth, me, not the car).

But I do want it to be compliant with Group Nb regs, both in respect to its history (brief may it be) and to retain its value.

Brian

Thanks all for your replies, has been a great help.

Brian

Brian

Retention of the Nb is THE way to go. it will retain the value best that way. look after your new pride & joy. I'm building one from scratch for the exact same purpose. Very time consuming.

Wayne

However there ways around getting log books with cars with alloy cages. The cams manual is purposely not hard back because u can bend the rules but not break them

Just because a particular car has a Cams Logbook does not mean the ROPS is Cams approved.

An "engineered" cage is worthless for Cams approval...must be approved by a Cams Authorised Scrutineer.

A cage can be built by anyone ,but unless it is/was inspected & passed by a Cams Authorised Scrutineer [the list is on the Cams Website] & the relevant approval paperwork is obtained from Cams & noted in the Logbook the cage will be deemed to be illegal.

BUT... a ROPS is not required for any Speed event,so,unless it is obviously a shonky cage, does not need to be Cams Approved /have covering paperwork.

Also, in all things motorsport,it is up to the competitor to prove the car is "legal"for the class it is entered in,not the Scrutineer's job to prove it isn't..big difference. Bending rules & subsequently getting caught doesn't make your Motorsport experience very enjoyable [or long lasting.]

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1974 1150cc Leyland Mini S racer,
1975 No motor Leyland Mini "ute"
1991 IPRA Honda Integra (in the build)
1995 Land Rover Discovery 300Tdi

CAMS Scrutineer

From what you are saying, yes you can definitely keep your alloy cage and is a good idea. they are worth around 30kg over a steel cage. My Group C car has its original alloy cage, and it has run in Appendix J as well as Nb with the same cage. An alloy caged car is a worthy thing to have simply for weight value if nothing else.
G.

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1970 Cooper S ex-Bathurst & ATCC
1964 Austin Cooper S ex-Group C race car
1967 Morris Cooper S ex-Group B
1962 Mini Speed sports sedan
1968-71 ex-Peter Manton Shell car