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seat belts legalities
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Author:  AWOODY [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  seat belts legalities
Does anybody know what the legalities might be for putting 3 point harnesses into a 63 mini in N.S.W.
Author:  Kennomini [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
It will need to comply with NSW ADR's (look on the transport dept website) the problem with putting 3 point belts in a 63 mini is the rear parcel shelf is not up to strength like late model Leyland minis that came from the factory with them.
Morris mini parcel shelf (same as your car);
Image
Later Leyland minis with factory belts;
Image
As you can see their are extra steel plate braces in numerous places.
I ended up just installing lab belts in the back of my 1962 mini. Except for the bracing plate around the captive nut (that gets installed at the same time as the nut when upgrading to lap belts) the body panels are the same in the lower seatbelt mount areas.
Author:  peterb [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
There should be seat belt certifier near you. Call the local rego office, they'll know. There's no big tests involved in fitting seat belts in old cars, he'll just look at it and tell you the best way to do it. Might need a bit of a bracket under shelf to strengthen it.
Author:  DA9jeff [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
Any belt with a "Press"button release mechanism should be ADR compliant OZ wide. The Motorsport twist or latch type is definitely not an ADR approved harness .
Author:  Kennomini [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
The big problem with the parcel shelf is in a old mini it is not designed to hold 400kg+ of force against it (two rear passengers, average 60kg each person so a total of 120kg, from memory the mounts are meant to hold 4x the weight if the passengers so that takes it up to 480kg). Your local seatbelt certified won't know that late model minis have extra strengthening in the rear shelf so they'll look at it and say "ok a pair of 50x70x4mm plates welded to the shelf and some seatbelt nuts welded to them and your good to go". Yes it can be certified easily but in truth the rear shelf isn't strong enough in the early minis to support the load, that is why the later minis have the extra plating and bracing like in my pics.
If you really want rear three point seat belts you'll need to replace the parcel shelf with a complete one from a factory fitted mini and then it will need certification. Also no rear speakers cut into the shelf, that will weaken the shelf and cause the metal to tear under load.
Well that's my opinion anyway.
Author:  woodwormm [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would think to put a harness in you'll need to engineer the car as a 2 seater as you're not allowed to run passengers in the back as soon as there's a harness...

anyways that's the way it would work here in SA , so i'm completely out of the loop to begin with! :D :P
Author:  1071 S [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
"Does anybody know what the legalities might be for putting 3 point harnesses into a 63 mini in N.S.W..."

There's this program called Google that allows you to find the regulations so that you can then read them.....

Last time I looked (which was some time ago) they were only allowed in very restricted circumstances.. but maybe the rules have changed...

Cheers, Ian
Author:  IndigoBlueCooperS [ Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Are we talking fronts or rears for the 63 Mini?
Author:  adamstuart [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Isn't a 3 point harness a Lap Sash belt?

As in, top, bottom left and bottom right mounting points? One of those being the buckle?

The way I took it was his car has lap belts in the front, and he wants lap sash belts.
Author:  MrFail [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Yea, thats what i think he means....
If you put a 3 point harness with a normal clip type buckle that bolts into the factory front mounts i would think that it would be perfectly legal ... wouldnt it???
Author:  drmini in aust [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:08 am ]
Post subject: 
MrFail wrote:
Yea, thats what i think he means....
If you put a 3 point harness with a normal clip type buckle that bolts into the factory front mounts i would think that it would be perfectly legal ... wouldnt it???

a `63 has a top mount in the B pillar for a static lap/sash belt.
You can fit inertia reels but the big door pocket gets in the way.
As there is more force on the top mount in an accident (has been discussed at length here before) with these belts the top mount was strengthened in the late 60s..

[edit] I'm not sure this ^^ is what the OP means- I have a 3 point race harness that I clip in for tracks days.. I strengthened the parcel shelf with some steel plate for the rear mount.
Author:  Beanie [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
i would agree on what has been said .. the parcel shelf is defanatly NOT strong enough to have belts mounted to it ..

remember this each seat belt location point needs to withstand a force of 2500kgs :shock:

if your going to install a harness .. put the mounts at the bottom of your back seat , where the squab meets the cussion

and when i hear three point harness this is what i think he means


Image


Beanie
Author:  mini1990 [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Ditto, on mounting it to the lower part of the rear seat. Just gotta make sure the angle of the belt isnt greater than 45degrees as it cant be engineered then.
Author:  DA9jeff [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
^^^Willans 3 point as in Beanies post are banned by the FIA/Cams as of 2010.
Author:  mini1990 [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
DA9jeff: Does this apply to all makes of 3 point harnesses or just Willans? Sorry if this seems like a stupid question, it just wasnt clear in your post.
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